Not By Works

and who is saying that obeying is not important??

It's not enough to say obedience is "important" - obedience is not optional, but essential. Essential for what, you ask? Essential as evidence that salvation has been received into the heart - and disobedience is evidence to the contrary.

"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandmetns is a liar and the truth is not in him." -- 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

A man who claims to love his wife but is constantly unfaithful to her evidences that he is a liar and so is the Christian who claims to love Jesus but puts anything else before God, engages in idolatry in whatever form it takes, blasphemes, breaks the 7th day Sabbath, etc., etc., etc.

for all have sinned and fall short

unless you are perfect, you have failed to meet Gods standard and apart fro grace are a sinner worthy of death.

scripture says if we keep the whole law yet STUMBlE in one area, we are guilty of all

when YOU stop judging others and start taking care of your own sin

when YOU stop judging others and start taking care of your own sin (even a sin which you stumbled into by accident makes you guilty). Then you will have repented truly,
I pray God brings you to this point soon my friend

Sin is a choice, and those who refuse to stop choosing sin are branches that will sever themselves from the Vine.
I judge no one: the Scriptures judge and condemn those who think grace is a license to keep doing that which made necessary the crucifixion of our Lord in the first place.
Brother, you are just as wrong about the Plan of Salvation as you are about Eschatology The Bible clearly says there's mercy for the stumbling Christian: "A just man falls seven times and rises up again." Proverbs 24:16 KJV

However, the Christian who leaps from God's open hand into the pit of sin, sits down and gets comfortable, and slaps away God's hand reaching to lift him out is going to the Lake of Fire, plain and simple:

"He that covereth his sin (with the false doctrine of OSAS whereby hypocrites hope to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life) shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13 KJV

Yep James lied

your Bible interpretive skills are as bad as your eschatology

the plan of salvation is to call out on the name of Jesus

sadly your like the pharisee, you claim we come to God in faith (the spirit) then must perfect that salvation in the flesh (obedience and works)

paul calls you a fool!

Sin is a choice, and those who refuse to stop choosing sin are branches that will sever themselves from the Vine.
I judge no one: the Scriptures judge and condemn those who think grace is a license to keep doing that which made necessary the crucifixion of our Lord in the first place.
Brother, you are just as wrong about the Plan of Salvation as you are about Eschatology The Bible clearly says there's mercy for the stumbling Christian: "A just man falls seven times and rises up again." Proverbs 24:16 KJV

However, the Christian who leaps from God's open hand into the pit of sin, sits down and gets comfortable, and slaps away God's hand reaching to lift him out is going to the Lake of Fire, plain and simple:

"He that covereth his sin (with the false doctrine of OSAS whereby hypocrites hope to obtain by dead faith that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life) shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13 KJV

it is the +

all man-made religion offers a +.

believe + live right= saved.

believe+ tithe= saved.

all the different versions of the same thing.

all are false.

believe= saved

unbelief= condemed.

very simple.

you remind me of the loudmouth baptist and pentecostal preachers from the '70's and '80's

all you are trying to do, just as they did, is cast doubt on one's salvation.

this was their message and yours- "are you saved? are you really saved? are you sure? are you really sure?

are you living right? are you sure? are you really sure?

is God pleased with your life? are you living up to His standards? are you sure you are?

all non-sense, all to make others doubt.

and then anger at us who know better and don't fall for it.

Sorry if that upsets you, G, but there's going to be people decieved by the saccharine sentimentalism of OSAS who wished they had "examined themselves to see if they be in the faith" when they hear Jesus say "I never knew you." I believe the word Jesus used was "many".

Sorry if that upsets you, G, but there's going to be people decieved by the saccharine sentimentalism of OSAS who wished they had "examined themselves to see if they be in the faith" when they hear Jesus say "I never knew you." I believe the word Jesus used was "many".

this was their message and yours- "are you saved? are you really saved? are you sure? are you really sure?

I remember many years ago when I attended a week where loads of churches gathered.

I went forward for prayer as I was struggling in my walk.

A guy started talking to me and asked what the problem was.
Basically it was I didn't feel close God and I felt God didn't feel close to me.

A summary of the conversation.

Ok why do you think this is?
I don't know I replied.
Do you speak in tongues?
No I said (in my church people did so I knew what it was)
Ok that may be why you are struggling, tongues is evidence of salvation.
Would you like to speak in tongues and be saved?

Needless to say I was very upset and confused.

I just said I don't know how to and he asked me and this is true.
Shall I show you how to?

I said no thanks and got up and left.
Boy did I carry that for a long while.
I even prayed for tongues in my own room but it never happened.

Not sure whether the guy was a Baptist or Pentecostal.

this was their message and yours- "are you saved? are you really saved? are you sure? are you really sure?

are you living right? are you sure? are you really sure?

is God pleased with your life? are you living up to His standards? are you sure you are?

all non-sense, all to make others doubt.

This is the kind of thinking that can lead to the “doubt cycle“. Take a question such as am I really saved ? for example then one may read Scripture, research online, or talking to others then feel better. Then the question may come oh but are you sure you are saved? and then once again anxiety and doubt comes.
I believe it can be helpful to an individual to do an extensive study on salvation. However in certain cases one may do such a study , feel assurance from Scripture and yet the doubts may come. But faith is to trust God even if you feel afraid or unsure.

YOU DID RIGHT IN SAYING "No Thanks" and walking away. Every bit of the Tongues of Today is a COUNTERFEIT, and I can prove it.

At the Birthday of the CHURCH, IT SAYS:

Acts 2:4-12 (HCSB)
4 Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different languages, as the Spirit gave them ability for speech.
5 There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
6 When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused
because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were astounded and amazed, saying, “Look, aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans?
8 How is it that each of us can hear in our own native language?
9 Parthians, Medes, Elamites; those who live in Mesopotamia, in Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking the magnificent acts of God in our own languages.”
12 They were all astounded and perplexed, saying to one another, “What could this be?”

I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT ANYTHING LESS THAN EVERYONE HEARD THEM SPEAKING IN HIS OWN LANGUAGE., is a Counterfeit of the REAL THING. People have FORGOTTEN the Devil love to Imitate REAL miracles of GOD; like Pharaoh's Magicians Turned their Staves into SNAKES TOO. But Satan's Miracles are just a little bit different that GOD's, and they focus attention on the DOER, instead of CHRIST. I believe genuine TONGUES will be done only when their foreigners present, who can verify that they heard it in their own Language, MAL. 3:6. It seems Possible that in GOD's Miracle of TONGUES, part of the MIRACLE, was in the HEARING of MESSAGE simultaneously, as I doubt that Peter had the time to repeat his Message in every known language of the world, in the remaining FEW hours that Day.

I am sorry Pentecostals or Charismatics, BUT THAT IS ABSOLUTELY WHAT I PERSONALLY BELIEVE; and NO, I do not want to discuss it ever, as it will lead to an argument every time.

This is the kind of thinking that can lead to the “doubt cycle“. Take a question such as am I really saved ? for example then one may read Scripture, research online, or talking to others then feel better. Then the question may come oh but are you sure you are saved? and then once again anxiety and doubt comes.
I believe it can be helpful to an individual to do an extensive study on salvation. However in certain cases one may do such a study , feel assurance from Scripture and yet the doubts may come. But faith is to trust God even if you feel afraid or unsure.

I remember many years ago when I attended a week where loads of churches gathered.

I went forward for prayer as I was struggling in my walk.

A guy started talking to me and asked what the problem was.
Basically it was I didn't feel close God and I felt God didn't feel close to me.

A summary of the conversation.

Ok why do you think this is?
I don't know I replied.
Do you speak in tongues?
No I said (in my church people did so I knew what it was)
Ok that may be why you are struggling, tongues is evidence of salvation.
Would you like to speak in tongues and be saved?

Needless to say I was very upset and confused.

I just said I don't know how to and he asked me and this is true.
Shall I show you how to?

I said no thanks and got up and left.
Boy did I carry that for a long while.
I even prayed for tongues in my own room but it never happened.

Not sure whether the guy was a Baptist or Pentecostal.

This is not me going at you but just food for thought.

A little bit of background.

My heritage is Muslim. My mum was bought up with Muslim teachings.
To her Jesus was just a prophet.
I am one of three brothers and the first Christian.

My mum is badly deaf from ear issues.

She agreed to come my church one day and refused to go back as she could not hear probably and lots of words she did not understand.

When at school she was considered educationally sub normal and therefore wasn't part of mainstream education.

She became a Christian after my wife and I walked and talked with her.
Jesus to her is not a prophet but the son of God who died and rose again.

She has no internet access, afraid to go to church.
Yet she goes out and does what Jesus has asked her to do.

Hi brother,

Yes I did the right thing.
I do think tongues have not ceased but it is a gift as Paul says but not one I have been given. Paul mentions many gifts. One has to ask the question if one is no longer prevelant then what about the rest? Discard one then you have to discard the rest.

But I agree with you, no point in discussing it because it will always lead to an argument.

Personally I believe it's not a salvation issue.

But to burden a child of God by insinuating if they do not have a gift of the spirit then they are not saved and is basically adding a millstone round their neck.

Final note for me is that I believe the gifts have not ceased and we need these gifts as much today as in the days of the early church.