Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
It does not mean he left to do that

and even if he did

HE WAS STILL HIS FATHERS SON! He was never kicked out of the family like you claim we would be
Further, just like the dude in Corinthians, his flesh was given over to Satan until he repented. This is the lengths our Father will go to so that we repent and go back to Him.

13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. 14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
And the definitive answer is in the TRANSLATION TO ENGLISH. Greek has 6 primary Verb Tenses, whereas we only have in English 3 primary Verb Tenses. That only translates that way, because ENGLISH doesn't have the CORRECT Verb tense. What is really implies, is a Lifestyle of habitually SINNING. That is the CORRECT way of reading it.

English is one of the poorest languages you could translate the BIBLE into. Personally I think they should have added the other Verb Tenses so that we could have translated the BIBLE Accurately.
Don’t tell the KJV only people this they will jump you!
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Further, just like the dude in Corinthians, his flesh was given over to Satan until he repented. This is the lengths our Father will go to so that we repent and go back to Him.

13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living. 14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want. 15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
God took me to where I was ready to commit suicide. I do nit want to live. At that time my best friend who I had not heard in over 3 years called. And I went to him.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Don’t tell the KJV only people this they will jump you!

Well here is the TRUTH about the 1611 KJV, it was ONLY a Paraphrased VERSION, made from the 5 or 6 Earlier English Version.
There Translation Team ADMITTED IT, and that earlier versions had KNOW ERRORS IN THEM. Here is an excerpt of their original:


QUOTE:

Original 1611 KJV PREFACE

The Translators To The Reader
Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .​
. . .​
But how shall men meditate in that, which they cannot understand? How shall they understand that which is kept close in an unknowen tongue? . . . so lest the Church be driven to the like exigent, it is necessary to have translations in a readinesse. . .​
. . .​
Yet it seemed good to the holy Ghost and to them, to take that which they found, (the same being for the greatest part true and sufficient) rather then by making a new, in that new world and greene age of the Church, to expose themselves to many exceptions and cavillations, as though they made a Translation to serve their owne turne, and therefore bearing witnesse to themselves, their witnesse not to be regarded. This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .​
. . . This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, com- monly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gen- tiles by written ERRORS preaching . . . It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction; . . . { KNOWN in the Septuagint } . . . (and Saint Jerome affirmeth as much) that the Seventie were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to adde to the Originall, and sometimes to take from it; which made the Apostles to leave them many times, when they left the Hebrew, and to deliver the sence thereof according to the trueth of the word, as the spirit gave them utterance. This may suffice touching the Greeke Translations of the old Testament. . . .​
. . . But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite (Latini Interprets nullo modo numerari possunt, saith S. Augustine.) [S. Augustin. de doctr. Christ. lib 2 cap II]. Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy. . . .
There were also within a few hundreth yeeres after CHRIST, translations many into the Latine tongue: for this tongue also was very fit to convey the Law and the Gospel by, because in those times very many Countreys of the West, yea of the South, East and North, spake or understood Latine, being made Provinces to the Romanes. But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .​
. . .​
. . . the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also, if anything be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the original, the same may be corrected, and the truth set in place. { KNOWN ERRORS } . . .​
Yet for all that, as nothing is begun and perfited at the same time, and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; no man, we are sure, hath cause to mislike us; they, we persuade our selves, if they were alive, would thanke us. . . .​
. . .​
to have the translations of the Bible maturely considered of and examined. For by this meanes it commeth to passe, that whatsoever is sound alreadie (and all is sound for substance, in one or other of our editions, and the worst of ours farre better then their autentike vulgar) the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .​
. . .​
Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest { poorest } translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .​
. . .​
Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Taanslations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .​
. . .​
But the difference that appeareth betweene our Translations, and our often correcting of them, is the thing that wee are specially charged with; let us see therefore whether they themselves bee without fault this way, (if it be to be counted a fault, to correct) and whether they bee fit men to throw stones at us: But it is high time to leave them, and to shew in briefe what wee proposed to our selves, and what course we held in this our perusall and survay of the Bible. Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, (for then the imputation of Sixtus had bene true in some sort, that our people had bene fed with gall of Dragons in stead of wine, with whey in stead of milke, but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . . { That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages. }
Note the LINK ABOVE, no longer works. Here are a couple that do work:
(https://library.osu.edu/innovation-...bible/sidebars/the-translators-preface-to-the)


(http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm) Easiest to use (leave off the brackets) to reference full version. Read it 4 times to make sure I understood it.
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
I like you Mr Oyster. I think you are very wrong in your belief that one of God’s born again Children can be lost.

But you do very well in respectfully, and even lovingly, debating those of us who believe we can never be tossed out, or leave God’s family.

Definitely something we can emulate.
Amen
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,159
113
I had to laugh at the King James onlyism...o_O:eek:

It's a shame really, as I think they actually do a disservice to the KJV.. they put people off. I don't read that version personally but I've got one. Anyhow it served the church mightily for 400 years. (y)

Anyhow back to my cup of tea and biscuits :censored::LOL::eek:
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Nice talking with you all. Moving to other threads now. God bless.:):coffee:
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but why get hung up on only half of the story? Let's all be "full Gospel Christians" and preach the whole story:

"Salvation - which is by grace through faith alone and not works - is not only pardon for sin but also power to obey, and failure to overcome habitual sin is proof that Salvation has not been received into the heart."​
1 John 2:3-4 KJV:
"And hereby we do know that we konw Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him."

James 2:24-25 KJV:
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (exemplified by Abraham). Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works...?"

Romans 2:13 KJV:
"For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;"

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Matthew 5:19 KJV
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 19:17 KJV
"So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Titus 2:11-14 KJV
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I had to laugh at the King James onlyism...o_O:eek:

It's a shame really, as I think they actually do a disservice to the KJV.. they put people off. I don't read that version personally but I've got one. Anyhow it served the church mightily for 400 years. (y)

Anyhow back to my cup of tea and biscuits :censored::LOL::eek:

It goes way deeper than that. Here is post with no name attached that shows you how deep their misinformation can get, their blind Trust, in a version that was only to update the ENGLISH to the King James English, and to correct some KNOWN ERRORS. It was never intended to be a legitimate TRANSLATION, but look how this KJV ONLY Believer, thought of his KJV:

QUOTE:
I don't disagree that there is a corruption of the Word of God within Modern Translations. I believe the KJV to be the divinely inspired Word of God for our day (that is perfect) and that we have to be careful about Modern Bibles.​
:END QUOTE.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but why get hung up on only half of the story? Let's all be "full Gospel Christians" and preach the whole story:

"Salvation - which is by grace through faith alone and not works - is not only pardon for sin but also power to obey, and failure to overcome habitual sin is proof that Salvation has not been received into the heart."​
1 John 2:3-4 KJV:
"And hereby we do know that we konw Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him."

James 2:24-25 KJV:
"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only (exemplified by Abraham). Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works...?"

Romans 2:13 KJV:
"For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;"

Ephesians 2:10 KJV
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Matthew 5:19 KJV
"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 19:17 KJV
"So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

Titus 2:11-14 KJV
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works."
Good luck earning your salvation man.

I pray when you get to judgement day and God points out your besetting sin, which you are denying you have, you realise what you. Issued out on earth by judging others and what you will possibly miss out in heaven because you had faith in your power to overcome all sin, and not faith in Christ to save your eternal soul, so you can start loving and serving others not judge them

may God bless you
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,402
6,740
113
people need to really understand what sin is, and then they would not take it so lightly, and would not be so judgemental about it....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
people need to really understand what sin is, and then they would not take it so lightly, and would not be so judgemental about it....
Amen brother, imagine if the Jew understood that, when Jesus asked it they kept the law all of them would have immediately fell on their face and said no
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Good luck earning your salvation man.
That's unfair. I specifically stated that salvation "is by grace through faith alone, not by works". Did you miss that?

Good luck trying to explain to God why you only wanted Him as your Savior in sin, but wanted nothing to do with Him as your Lord to obey.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's unfair. I specifically stated that salvation "is by grace through faith alone, not by works". Did you miss that?
no I read it, but then I read further and found out it was not true, you claim one the g then preach another

Good luck trying to explain to God why you only wanted Him as your Savior in sin, but wanted nothing to do with Him as your Lord to obey.
ah, now see here you are being unfair, as I never said or insinuated any such thing.I have been a disciple of Jesus for many years, growing in grace and truth, and serve him as my leader, my guide, my master and my teacher.

you still are trying to earn your way saying you must work to stop sin or your out,

my God said he who completed a work will complete it, I trust God, I am not going out to be a fruit inspector those who is saved or not, I am out to serve people and help them like others helped me

you go on fruit inspecting and ignoring your own sin
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,402
6,740
113
That's unfair. I specifically stated that salvation "is by grace through faith alone, not by works". Did you miss that?

Good luck trying to explain to God why you only wanted Him as your Savior in sin, but wanted nothing to do with Him as your Lord to obey.

and who is saying that obeying is not important??
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
and who is saying that obeying is not important??

It is important, ONLY if the Motive for doing so is RIGHT. IT HAS GO BE DONE WITH ONLY THE MOTIVE OF AGAPE LOVE,
or it is nothing BUT wood, hay, and stubble, if it is Almost the right MOTIVE, and FILTHY RAGS, if it is done for SALVATION,
or to IMPLOVE Salvation.


JESUS DID IT ALL for the SALVATION of the Human Spirit.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
TYPO:
It is important, ONLY if the Motive for doing so is RIGHT. IT HAS GO BE DONE WITH ONLY THE MOTIVE OF AGAPE LOVE,
or it is nothing BUT wood, hay, and stubble, if it is Almost the right MOTIVE, which would be equal to FILTHY RAGS, if it is done for SALVATION, or to IMPROVE Salvation. That would be for the WRONG MOTIVE.


JESUS DID IT ALL for the SALVATION of the Human Spirit.