The Saving results of the Death of Christ !
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um, yes i am speaking directly to the thread topic, like a good little forum member.
so -- we could go lots of places to answer, 'where/how was atonement made by Christ Jesus' with the same net result -- let's arbitrarily go here:
so here's where we are -- 1 John 2:2 tells us that Christ is the mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice for not only those who put their faith in Him ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also for the whole world, which is spoken of in no uncertain terms as being those outside the faith.
Romans 3:25 tells us that this mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice is by His blood.
so we have two places that can have taken place -- at the cross, or at the heavenly altar where He presented His blood shed at the cross. if we examine the figure presented by the law, both the sacrifice & the sprinkling of blood take place in the temple - so it's hardly material which which of these we settle on for where that atonement took place, at least for the purposes of 1 John 2:2 and the thread topic.
→ Christ died not only for His sheep but for those who are not His sheep. that's what scripture says.
i would like to ask how you get out of this conclusion?
and i would like to ask your opinion on the implications of this conclusion..?
the matter of how it is that this atonement is effective for the believer but ineffective for the unbeliever ((re: John 8:24)) is a separate matter, IMHO
so -- we could go lots of places to answer, 'where/how was atonement made by Christ Jesus' with the same net result -- let's arbitrarily go here:
For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness
(Romans 3:22-25)
that's NKJV; NIV & a few others have 'sacrifice of atonement' instead of propitiation, handily justifying my using the word in a substitutionary ((get it?)) way. the Greek is literally 'mercy seat' interestingly enough, which Weymouth, YLT & Darby faithfully put. so here's where we are -- 1 John 2:2 tells us that Christ is the mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice for not only those who put their faith in Him ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also for the whole world, which is spoken of in no uncertain terms as being those outside the faith.
Romans 3:25 tells us that this mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice is by His blood.
so we have two places that can have taken place -- at the cross, or at the heavenly altar where He presented His blood shed at the cross. if we examine the figure presented by the law, both the sacrifice & the sprinkling of blood take place in the temple - so it's hardly material which which of these we settle on for where that atonement took place, at least for the purposes of 1 John 2:2 and the thread topic.
→ Christ died not only for His sheep but for those who are not His sheep. that's what scripture says.
i would like to ask how you get out of this conclusion?
and i would like to ask your opinion on the implications of this conclusion..?
the matter of how it is that this atonement is effective for the believer but ineffective for the unbeliever ((re: John 8:24)) is a separate matter, IMHO
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equivalent to Romans 3:25 insomuch as it touches on 1 John 2:2
redemption is via propitiation/mercy-seat/atoning-sacrifice through faith by the shed/sprinkled blood of Christ.
1 John 2:2 says this blood was shed not only for the believer ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also the unbeliever ((vis a vis 'the whole world'))
redemption is via propitiation/mercy-seat/atoning-sacrifice through faith by the shed/sprinkled blood of Christ.
1 John 2:2 says this blood was shed not only for the believer ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also the unbeliever ((vis a vis 'the whole world'))
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Christs death accomplished/effected both Justification and Reconciliation for them He died for, His Elect Rom 5:9-11
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement/reconciliation.44
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement/reconciliation.44
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
THIS HAPPENED WHEN WE BELIEVED .
we shall be saved from wrath through him.
SAVED ,AFTER BELIEVING .
10 For if, when we were enemies,
THATS EVERYONE , HEAD FOR HEAD
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
READ 2COR 5.19 HE RECONCILED THE WORLD ..
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
RESURRECTION
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now!!!
AFTER BELIEVING READ EPH 1.12-13
received the atonement/reconciliation.
THIS HAPPENED WHEN WE BELIEVED .
we shall be saved from wrath through him.
SAVED ,AFTER BELIEVING .
10 For if, when we were enemies,
THATS EVERYONE , HEAD FOR HEAD
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
READ 2COR 5.19 HE RECONCILED THE WORLD ..
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
RESURRECTION
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now!!!
AFTER BELIEVING READ EPH 1.12-13
received the atonement/reconciliation.
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E
Once again, this is speaking of the end result for us as a group of people
it does not prove your point however.
it is like I purchased something for everyone in a store but everyone did not take the gift. Because they did not think the gift was special, or they hated me
it does not mean I did not buy them one, they just did not recieve it
for those who did, like this verse you shared, they recieved what was paid for
however, it does not prove it was only purchased for them and not everyone as you insist
it does not prove your point however.
it is like I purchased something for everyone in a store but everyone did not take the gift. Because they did not think the gift was special, or they hated me
it does not mean I did not buy them one, they just did not recieve it
for those who did, like this verse you shared, they recieved what was paid for
however, it does not prove it was only purchased for them and not everyone as you insist