The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
brightfame52 said:
So you taking over my discussion topic correct?
Click to expand...

um, yes i am speaking directly to the thread topic, like a good little forum member.

so -- we could go lots of places to answer, 'where/how was atonement made by Christ Jesus' with the same net result -- let's arbitrarily go here:

For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness ​
(Romans 3:22-25) ​
​
that's NKJV; NIV & a few others have 'sacrifice of atonement' instead of propitiation, handily justifying my using the word in a substitutionary ((get it?)) way. the Greek is literally 'mercy seat' interestingly enough, which Weymouth, YLT & Darby faithfully put.

so here's where we are -- 1 John 2:2 tells us that Christ is the mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice for not only those who put their faith in Him ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also for the whole world, which is spoken of in no uncertain terms as being those outside the faith.
Romans 3:25 tells us that this mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice is by His blood.
so we have two places that can have taken place -- at the cross, or at the heavenly altar where He presented His blood shed at the cross. if we examine the figure presented by the law, both the sacrifice & the sprinkling of blood take place in the temple - so it's hardly material which which of these we settle on for where that atonement took place, at least for the purposes of 1 John 2:2 and the thread topic.

→ Christ died not only for His sheep but for those who are not His sheep. that's what scripture says.


i would like to ask how you get out of this conclusion?
and i would like to ask your opinion on the implications of this conclusion..?
the matter of how it is that this atonement is effective for the believer but ineffective for the unbeliever ((re: John 8:24)) is a separate matter, IMHO
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
posthuman said:
um, yes i am speaking directly to the thread topic, like a good little forum member.

so -- we could go lots of places to answer, 'where/how was atonement made by Christ Jesus' with the same net result -- let's arbitrarily go here:

For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness ​
(Romans 3:22-25) ​
​
that's NKJV; NIV & a few others have 'sacrifice of atonement' instead of propitiation, handily justifying my using the word in a substitutionary ((get it?)) way. the Greek is literally 'mercy seat' interestingly enough, which Weymouth, YLT & Darby faithfully put.

so here's where we are -- 1 John 2:2 tells us that Christ is the mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice for not only those who put their faith in Him ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also for the whole world, which is spoken of in no uncertain terms as being those outside the faith.
Romans 3:25 tells us that this mercy-seat/propitiation/atoning sacrifice is by His blood.
so we have two places that can have taken place -- at the cross, or at the heavenly altar where He presented His blood shed at the cross. if we examine the figure presented by the law, both the sacrifice & the sprinkling of blood take place in the temple - so it's hardly material which which of these we settle on for where that atonement took place, at least for the purposes of 1 John 2:2 and the thread topic.

→ Christ died not only for His sheep but for those who are not His sheep. that's what scripture says.


i would like to ask how you get out of this conclusion?
and i would like to ask your opinion on the implications of this conclusion..?
the matter of how it is that this atonement is effective for the believer but ineffective for the unbeliever ((re: John 8:24)) is a separate matter, IMHO
Click to expand...
Let's discuss post 435
 
brightfame52 said:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 35
Click to expand...

equivalent to Romans 3:25 insomuch as it touches on 1 John 2:2

redemption is via propitiation/mercy-seat/atoning-sacrifice through faith by the shed/sprinkled blood of Christ.

1 John 2:2 says this blood was shed not only for the believer ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also the unbeliever ((vis a vis 'the whole world'))
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
posthuman said:
equivalent to Romans 3:25 insomuch as it touches on 1 John 2:2

redemption is via propitiation/mercy-seat/atoning-sacrifice through faith by the shed/sprinkled blood of Christ.

1 John 2:2 says this blood was shed not only for the believer ((re: 1 John 5:13)) but also the unbeliever ((vis a vis 'the whole world'))
Click to expand...
More evasion tactics.
 
brightfame52 said:
You lack understanding, I said unbeiief isn't the unpardonable sin.
Click to expand...
And you can not read properly

i said you were wrong, and explained why, and as usual. You could not come back with an answer, so you mock

typical response,
 
posthuman said:
we can substitute the word atonement; it's similar enough for the purpose of discussing the implication of 1 John 2:2

where/how was atonement made by Christ Jesus?
Click to expand...
Let’s see if he answered you or sidesteps the question again like he did me
 
  • Like
Reactions: posthuman
brightfame52 said:
So you taking over my discussion topic correct?
Click to expand...
Just like I said.side step.

he only wants to discuss with those who agree with him, disagree and you are taking over his discussion

no honesty or integrity or real discussion here
 
Christs death accomplished/effected both Justification and Reconciliation for them He died for, His Elect Rom 5:9-11

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement/reconciliation.44
 
brightfame52 said:
Christs death accomplished/effected both Justification and Reconciliation for them He died for, His Elect Rom 5:9-11

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement/reconciliation.44
Click to expand...
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
THIS HAPPENED WHEN WE BELIEVED .
we shall be saved from wrath through him.
SAVED ,AFTER BELIEVING .
10 For if, when we were enemies,
THATS EVERYONE , HEAD FOR HEAD
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
READ 2COR 5.19 HE RECONCILED THE WORLD ..
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
RESURRECTION
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now!!!
AFTER BELIEVING READ EPH 1.12-13
received the atonement/reconciliation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: eternally-gratefull
brightfame52 said:
So you scoff the scriptures calling them calvinism. That gives you the right to ignore them when they go against your false beliefs. I get it.
Click to expand...
Its not a problem for me . I'm not bound to confessions, traditions Augustines philosophy and men of old with beards .
 
throughfaith said:
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
THIS HAPPENED WHEN WE BELIEVED .
we shall be saved from wrath through him.
SAVED ,AFTER BELIEVING .
10 For if, when we were enemies,
THATS EVERYONE , HEAD FOR HEAD
we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
READ 2COR 5.19 HE RECONCILED THE WORLD ..
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
RESURRECTION
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now!!!
AFTER BELIEVING READ EPH 1.12-13
received the atonement/reconciliation.
Click to expand...
You are wrong as usual. All are not reconciled while being enemies. The promise to the reconciled while being enemies is they shall be saved by His life. Are you a universalist?
 
brightfame52 said:
Christs death accomplished/effected both Justification and Reconciliation for them He died for, His Elect Rom 5:9-11

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement/reconciliation.44
Click to expand...
Once again, this is speaking of the end result for us as a group of people

it does not prove your point however.
it is like I purchased something for everyone in a store but everyone did not take the gift. Because they did not think the gift was special, or they hated me

it does not mean I did not buy them one, they just did not recieve it

for those who did, like this verse you shared, they recieved what was paid for

however, it does not prove it was only purchased for them and not everyone as you insist
 
brightfame52 said:
You are wrong as usual. All are not reconciled while being enemies. The promise to the reconciled while being enemies is they shall be saved by His life. Are you a universalist?
Click to expand...
We were reconciled when we came to faith

as John says, those who believe are given the right or power to become gods children.
again, you remove faith from the equation
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back