Evrelasting Father

Shandy · Dec 13, 2020

In Isaiah 9:6 we are told the Son will be called Everlasting Fathet.
John 14:28 Jesus says the Father is greater than he.
Matthew 23:9 tells us nkt yo call anyone father as there is one father who is in heaven.
So why will Jesus be called Everlasting Father?
This has always confused me.

JaumeJ · Dec 13, 2020

Isaiah 9;6 also says He will carry the titles of Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor and God Almight. He is the Everlasting Father also, for God is One.

If you wish to dismiss the teaching, first meditate some on what God said to Moses when asked His name. I said, I will be what I will be.. This explains the Oneness of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, at least on top of His will to be what He will be, but not completely

Tos say the mystery of our Maker is completely understood and explainaable is an idle boast, however to believe Isaiah as the Word from our Maker is the most viable manner of understanding for ow. I do call the Father Everlasting Father with this teaching in mind. I ask for Couseling and comforting also with this in mind, and it is always prayed in the name of Jesus-Yeshua..amen.

Yahshua · Dec 13, 2020

Shandy said:

Another way of looking at it could be this:

Adam is the father of all fleshy mankind. All are from his seed; part of his body, hidden in him until birth.

The Messiah is called the 2nd Adam. All believers are from His seed; part of His body as new creatures, hidden in Him until glory.

Another way of seeing it is: every new father is also still a son. Their relationship with their father doesn't change just because they have children. So everything the Messiah said in the gospels about THE Father remains true even as He is a father himself to us.

Isaiah 53:10 [brackets mine]
Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer; and when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring [be a father?], He will prolong His days [be everlasting?], and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

bluto · Dec 13, 2020

Shandy said:

Let me see if I can "unconfuse" you. It means that Jesus Christ is the Father of time and eternity, the source and origin of time, space and eternity. I'm sure you heard the saying that "George Washington" is the father of our country. This means he presided at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 which established the U.S Constitution and a federal government.

Now, to back up why Jesus is called the "Father of Eternity" is because He is the creator, originator, archetect of all things. John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Also Colossians 1:16, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties, all things have been CREATED by Him and for Him."

Then there is Revelation 3:14, "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this." This verse is "NOT" teaching Jesus is a created being like the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. The Gree word for "beginning" is arche, we get our English word "architect" from that word. An architect is a person who plans, designs and oversees anything to be made. Jesus is the "origin" and planner of everything, period.

In fact, I want you to notice what John 1:1 is teaching. It says, "in the beginning." Genesis 1:1 says the same thing, "in the beginning." Both verses start out the same exact way. Yet, the main thought in Genesis 1:1 is on WHAT HAPPENED in the beginning. While at John 1:1 the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED in the beginning. In other words, the beginning of John 1:1 precedes the beginning at Genesis 1:1. Does this make sense to you?

IN HIM,
bluto

Shandy · Dec 13, 2020

JaumeJ said:

Isaiah 9;6 also says He will carry the titles of Ruler of Peace, Comforter, Counselor and God Almight. He is the Everlasting Father also, for God is One.

If you wish to dismiss the teaching, first meditate some on what God said to Moses when asked His name. I said, I will be what I will be.. This explains the Oneness of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit, at least on top of His will to be what He will be, but not completely

Tos say the mystery of our Maker is completely understood and explainaable is an idle boast, however to believe Isaiah as the Word from our Maker is the most viable manner of understanding for ow. I do call the Father Everlasting Father with this teaching in mind. I ask for Couseling and comforting also with this in mind, and it is always prayed in the name of Jesus-Yeshua..amen.

Thank you for replying JaumeJ.
I like your last paragraph, that ishoe I pray to the Fathef too.
Yes I agree that we cannot fully understand everything

Shandy · Dec 13, 2020

Yahshua said:

Another way of looking at it could be this:

Adam is the father of all fleshy mankind. All are from his seed; part of his body, hidden in him until birth.

The Messiah is called the 2nd Adam. All believers are from His seed; part of His body as new creatures, hidden in Him until glory.

Another way of seeing it is: every new father is also still a son. Their relationship with their father doesn't change just because they have children. So everything the Messiah said in the gospels about THE Father remains true even as He is a father himself to us.

Isaiah 53:10 [brackets mine]
Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush Him and to cause Him to suffer; and when His soul is made a guilt offering, He will see His offspring [be a father?], He will prolong His days [be everlasting?], and the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

Thank you Yahshua
You are showing that there are different ways of looking at it. That makes sense.

Shandy · Dec 13, 2020

bluto said:

Let me see if I can "unconfuse" you. It means that Jesus Christ is the Father of time and eternity, the source and origin of time, space and eternity. I'm sure you heard the saying that "George Washington" is the father of our country. This means he presided at the Constitutional Convention of 1787 which established the U.S Constitution and a federal government.

Now, to back up why Jesus is called the "Father of Eternity" is because He is the creator, originator, archetect of all things. John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being." Also Colossians 1:16, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorties, all things have been CREATED by Him and for Him."

Then there is Revelation 3:14, "The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this." This verse is "NOT" teaching Jesus is a created being like the Jehovah's Witnesses teach. The Gree word for "beginning" is arche, we get our English word "architect" from that word. An architect is a person who plans, designs and oversees anything to be made. Jesus is the "origin" and planner of everything, period.

In fact, I want you to notice what John 1:1 is teaching. It says, "in the beginning." Genesis 1:1 says the same thing, "in the beginning." Both verses start out the same exact way. Yet, the main thought in Genesis 1:1 is on WHAT HAPPENED in the beginning. While at John 1:1 the emphasis is on WHO EXISTED in the beginning. In other words, the beginning of John 1:1 precedes the beginning at Genesis 1:1. Does this make sense to you?

IN HIM,
bluto

Thank you bluto
I agree with all you say there, and it seems to answer my question.
It doesn't feel such a big problem more.
Blessings to you.

Blik · Dec 13, 2020

What I am understanding from this is that we must not put Christ above the Father.

In the sermon of the mount, Christ said "you have been told" and then "but I tell you". Some read this as Christ cancelling what the Father said. If we do not put Christ as superior to the Father, we will read this as Christ explaining the true law to us, not changing it.

bluto · Dec 13, 2020

Shandy is asking about Isaiah 9:6, about the "Eternal Father" part. What does that have to do with your understanding of putting Jesus Christ above the Father?

The verse itself or the pharse Eternal Father has nothing to do with it. The verse also identifies Jesus as the "Mighty God," what do you think that means?

In Him,
bluto

Blackpowderduelist · Dec 13, 2020

You could stand on the shoulders of the saints of old who studied and wrote explanations down for us called creeds.
You could just read the Athanasian Creed, which explains the trinitarian principal.

Magenta · Dec 14, 2020

FlyingDove · Dec 14, 2020

Shandy said:

Father is a title

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

Each Capitalized name (showing deity) in Isa 9:6. Is a TITLE, each title represents a different attribute of the Son that shall be given.

Christ is God our Creator Jn 1:3 & 10, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6. He holds every TITLE mentioned in Isa 6.

1 Tim 3:16 (A) Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh

Jesus a fleshly theophany

Theophany definition: a visible manifestation to humankind of God.

Pilgrimshope · Dec 14, 2020

Shandy said:

when Christ became a man part of doing that meant he had tommake himself subject to God like we all are . The message is glorious in this world the king is protected by his subjects even if it costs thier lives they will save the king

but the glory of the gospel is that our God stepped off his throne , laid down. His glory in the heavens and became one of us fully , making himself as we are even though he is God the father , he manifest himself as one of us but when he returned to heaven he was glorified as before he came while he was on earth he was the son of man one of us chosen of God he became that

our king gave his life for us

Shandy · Dec 14, 2020

Peoples understanding of this seems varied. That is not surprising because it is a very strong and deep subject.
I understand how the Lord left heaven and His throne to save us. I fond it easy to declare Jesus Christ is The Son of God. I believe in the trinity. I am unable to say Jesus is the Father, just as I couldn't say The Father is The Son. Maybe one day the light will shine. Jesus is my Lord, Master and Rederner. I believe He is God, but not God The Father.
You Guys are all so great. Thank you for your replies and God Bless everyone of you.

Deuteronomy · Dec 14, 2020

Hello @Shandy, as the one, true God, and our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ is certainly our "Father" .. e.g. John 1:1-4, 14, Colossians 1:16-17.

As for the Godhead (the Trinity), the Lord Jesus exists both from and to everlasting as God the Son, the second Person/second Member of the Godhead.

So, while He, as God, is our Father, He is not the 1st Person of the Godhead who we refer to as "the Father" or God the Father (who Jesus also refers to as "His" Father).

It is perhaps a good thing to remember that the Godhead is a Biblical "mystery" (I know it helps me to remember that anyway

). We call it a Biblical "mystery" because while it is impossible for us to fully comprehend it (on the one hand), we know that it is true (on the other) .. because the Bible tells us that it is! So the church created the "Doctrine of the Trinity" as a means of both circumscribing and safeguarding what the Bible teaches us about the Godhead, not explain it (so that we can understand it), because that is simply beyond any of us (at least on this side of the grave anyway).

Difficult, I know

God bless you!

~Deut

Pilgrimshope · Dec 14, 2020

Shandy said:

consider these scriptures I’m in no way trying tommake you agree with me just wanted to offer some scripture to help

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the word who is one aspect of God has a purpose not only to exist and bear record in heaven but also this purpose

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-3, 14‬ ‭

so christs thinking while he was a man according to Paul was this

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the time he spent preaching the gospel God had become a man the promised son of God who would come according to the prophets and law . But he is God without a doubt . He is Gods full manifestation in the form of a man

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods plan to save man was to become one of us for a time , teach us the truth of God and salvation , die for our sins , and conquer deaths grasp on mankind for those who believe and then whe. He returned to heaven

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is God the father who came into the world and humbled himself to be one of us in order to redeem deaths power over man

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he had to do it for salvation become on of us subject to the law and temptation having a body of flesh or all was lost in death because of sin

Shandy · Dec 14, 2020

Deuteronomy said:

Hello @Shandy, as the one, true God, and our Creator, the Lord Jesus Christ is certainly our "Father" .. e.g. John 1:1-4, 14, Colossians 1:16-17.

As for the Godhead (the Trinity), the Lord Jesus exists both from and to everlasting as God the Son, the second Person/second Member of the Godhead.

So, while He, as God, is our Father, He is not the 1st Person of the Godhead who we refer to as "the Father" or God the Father (who Jesus also refers to as "His" Father).
Hello Deuteronomy
It is perhaps a good thing to remember that the Godhead is a Biblical "mystery" (I know it helps me to remember that anyway

). We call it a Biblical "mystery" because while it is impossible for us to fully comprehend it (on the one hand), we know that it is true (on the other) .. because the Bible tells us that it is! So the church created the "Doctrine of the Trinity" as a means of both circumscribing and safeguarding what the Bible teaches us about the Godhead, not explain it (so that we can understand it), because that is simply beyond any of us (at least on this side of the grave anyway).

Difficult, I know

God bless you!

~Deut[/QUOTE
Hello @Deuteronomy
Thank you for replying. You have put into words what I actually believe. The trinity is a mystery. We do not think as God thinks. We are not able to. So many wonderful things yet to be revealed.
Many blessings to you.

Shandy · Dec 14, 2020

Pilgrimshope said:

consider these scriptures I’m in no way trying tommake you agree with me just wanted to offer some scripture to help

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the word who is one aspect of God has a purpose not only to exist and bear record in heaven but also this purpose

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-3, 14‬ ‭

so christs thinking while he was a man according to Paul was this

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the time he spent preaching the gospel God had become a man the promised son of God who would come according to the prophets and law . But he is God without a doubt . He is Gods full manifestation in the form of a man

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Gods plan to save man was to become one of us for a time , teach us the truth of God and salvation , die for our sins , and conquer deaths grasp on mankind for those who believe and then whe. He returned to heaven

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is God the father who came into the world and humbled himself to be one of us in order to redeem deaths power over man

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

he had to do it for salvation become on of us subject to the law and temptation having a body of flesh or all was lost in death because of sin

Thank you @Pilgrimshope
I have no problem with the fact that Jesus is God. It's just that I can't see how He can be both Father and Son. Jesus is sitting on His throne next to The Father. I am not dismissing what you say, and I will indeed come back and read through it again.
God Bless

Pilgrimshope · Dec 14, 2020

Shandy said:

Oh I totally understand it’s not an uncommon question or anything it’s quite confusing

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also:

and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-7‬ ‭

Something sort of connected to this you know the scripture “ father word and Holy Spirit the three are one “ In the New Testament ? Well when you look back at the Old Testament God was always three manifestations working as one this is just something I thought was cool and shows the three aspects of God working together as one yet being three

“And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him:

and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife?

And he said, Behold, in the tent. And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son...

And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.

And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom:

but Abraham stood yet before the Lord.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭18:1-3, 5, 9-10, 16-17, 20-22‬ ‭

“And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭19:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it continues that way but you can see the three distinct yet unified aspects of God even in old times we now understand about the father the word and holy ghost , and about the word being made flesh and coming to earth

it’s not really visible until we have the New Testament

Pilgrimshope · Dec 14, 2020

Deuteronomy said:

He is actually God the everlasting father who became a man because no
Man could save us

“God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalms‬ ‭53:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the manifestation of God the father , the true God

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The reason there are three identities is they each Serve a distinct purpose of the one God father son and Holy Spirit.

the son was to be God in the flesh so mankind could see and know and hear him . And so that he could die in the flesh like we do For our sins and raise up from death like we couldn’t

the Holy Ghost is sent into the people who believe and are baptized sonGid the father and Jesus can be with us . Because wherever the Holy Ghost is all three are they are one . Wherever the son is so is the father they are one , wherever the father is , so are the son and the Holy Spirit they are all one.

the message is about the son of God , who is God manifest in the flesh , and glorified in the heavens

Evrelasting Father

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