Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?

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Truth7t7

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May 19, 2020
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God's elect is his Church, the Body of Christ Yeshua.

Colossians 3 (NKJV)

12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.

Romans 8 (NKJV)

32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect?
Ben, the very same deception bilton a pre-trib rapture, also surrounds a (Literal) Millennium on this earth?

1.) Rev 20:1-6 dosent show a literal physical king, or mortals present on earth, a man made fairytale

2.) Those that promote a literal Millennial Kingdom on earth, use Rev 20:1-6 as a foundation for (Thousand Years), then they drag you off to the old testament, Isaiah 11, 65, 66, Ezek 47, Zech 14, Etc claiming this represents their Millennial Kingdom on this Earth, when in reality it's the (Eternal Kingdom)

Yes, the teaching in Millennialism does exactlythe very same bait and switch in scripture as dispensationalism design their pre-trib rapture.

Jesus Christ returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth, judgement complete, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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Ben, the very same deception bilton a pre-trib rapture, also surrounds a (Literal) Millennium on this earth?

1.) Rev 20:1-6 dosent show a literal physical king, or mortals present on earth, a man made fairytale

2.) Those that promote a literal Millennial Kingdom on earth, use Rev 20:1-6 as a foundation for (Thousand Years), then they drag you off to the old testament, Isaiah 11, 65, 66, Ezek 47, Zech 14, Etc claiming this represents their Millennial Kingdom on this Earth, when in reality it's the (Eternal Kingdom)

Yes, the teaching in Millennialism does exactlythe very same bait and switch in scripture as dispensationalism design their pre-trib rapture.

Jesus Christ returns immediately after the tribulation in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth, judgement complete, eternity begins in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem
Revelation 20:1-10 , this is a subject for a different forum, Truth.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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The rapture of God's elect, his Bride the Church, is not in question. The timing preached, of God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is in question. Scriptures tells us that God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is with the return of Christ, after the great tribulation.

From Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ, the God's elect, his bride the Church, gets raptured, before there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for those not raptured:
That is your conclusion because like so many, you are not recognizing that the event of the Lord appearing to gather His church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate and distinct events. By doing so, you are ignoring the fact that Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Since God's wrath must be completed before Jesus can return to the earth, you are then putting the church through the entire wrath of God which we are not appointed to suffer.

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 50the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The scriptures that you have posted above, are in reference to the Lord's returning to the earth to end the age and to establish His millennial kingdom. This takes place after the fulfillment of God's wrath and His bride, the church, will be following behind Him riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen, white and clean that she will have received previously at the wedding of the Lamb.

In verse 31 Where, at the end of the age, He send will send out His angels. This is not the gathering of the church, but they will be gathering the great tribulation saints who will have made it alive through the entire tribulation period. This is synonymous with the parable in Matthew 13, where the Lord will send out His harvesters/angels to first gather the weeds/wicked. Then after, they will gather the wheat/righteous. Here are some examples of scriptures showing that the church will already be in heaven and will return with the Lord:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

"
Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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That is your conclusion because like so many, you are not recognizing that the event of the Lord appearing to gather His church vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, as being two separate and distinct events. By doing so, you are ignoring the fact that Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Since God's wrath must be completed before Jesus can return to the earth, you are then putting the church through the entire wrath of God which we are not appointed to suffer.



The scriptures that you have posted above, are in reference to the Lord's returning to the earth to end the age and to establish His millennial kingdom. This takes place after the fulfillment of God's wrath and His bride, the church, will be following behind Him riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen, white and clean that she will have received previously at the wedding of the Lamb.

In verse 31 Where, at the end of the age, He send will send out His angels. This is not the gathering of the church, but they will be gathering the great tribulation saints who will have made it alive through the entire tribulation period. This is synonymous with the parable in Matthew 13, where the Lord will send out His harvesters/angels to first gather the weeds/wicked. Then after, they will gather the wheat/righteous. Here are some examples of scriptures showing that the church will already be in heaven and will return with the Lord:

"Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

"They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

"
Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

"The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."
It is those that take the mark of the beast, and are not persecuted by the beast, that is the recipients of God's wrath. God's Church, the elect, the Body of Christ, who will be present during the great tribulation, who do not take the mark of the beast and gets persecuted for that, will not be the recipients of God's wrath, but are sealed with God's seal.


Matthew 24 (NKJV)

21For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.


Revelation 14 (NKJV)

9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
12Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
13Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
 

AlmondJoy

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Oct 31, 2020
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Yes, it follows immediately after the great tribulation, which is imminent.

Matthew 24 (NKJV)

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
The bible says no man knows the day of Christ's return.

If post tribulation were right, when the antichrist reveals himself at the 3.5 year mark could we not do some simple math and pinpoint the exact day of Christ's return?

If Paul was looking for the Lord to return in his day, shouldn't we?
 

Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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The bible says no man knows the day of Christ's return.

If post tribulation were right, when the antichrist reveals himself at the 3.5 year mark could we not do some simple math and pinpoint the exact day of Christ's return?

If Paul was looking for the Lord to return in his day, shouldn't we?
Well, if I may point out...the passage doesn't actually say "immediately after the tribulation, comes the Messiah".


Matthew 24:29-30
29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Immediately after the tribulation is heavenly signs, which aren't given a determinant about of time to occur.......and THEN (after the heavenly signs) appears the Son of Man in the clouds. Heavenly signs have always been interpreted as omens in the bible and here in verse 29, we're told that there would be (presumably interpreted by me) solar eclipses, lunar eclipses, meteor showers, and the authority (possibly, "the natural order") of the heavens/sky will be shaken.

----

Now I take the historicist's view of prophecy, believing the great tribulation (for the Jews) has just recently ended and - coincidentally - since the turn of the last century we've been experiencing a multitude of solar eclipses, lunar eclipses (remember that blood moon tetrad spanning 2014-2015), falling meteors, and significant effects of climate change (i.e. the powers of heaven shaken).
 

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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The rapture of God's elect, his Bride the Church, is not in question. The timing preached, of God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is in question. Scriptures tells us that God's elect, his Bride the Church's rapture is with the return of Christ, after the great tribulation.

From Matthew 24, after the great tribulation, at the return of Christ, the God's elect, his bride the Church, gets raptured, before there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for those not raptured:

Matthew 24 (NKJV)
Hey :) Matt 24 does not backup "caught up". Its like this..we know Jesus was not talking to the Church nor any Christians. Jews still under the law and they asked about end times. And Christ told them what they will see. Its not God telling us.. its man. Man is telling us what Matt 24 is really talking about. :)

The dead in Christ rise first and they do not go before us. Then we which remain will get caught up together and meet Christ in the air. Paul even put himself in that odd "we which remain". Christ comes in the air never once sets foot on the earth. Hes the one that said I will come get you so where I am you will be. That is not on the earth. He clearly said "where I go you know" that was back to His Fathers house. Thats where He is taking us... its what He said. And before that there must be "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first." Notice no one else is with Him." Not Christ or God from heaven gathering anyone. Christ alone comes in the air (clouds) and a shout, voice, trump of God has to happen.

I don't backup what I personally believe with is His word as some do. Caught up will happen.. what is not written is WHEN. For me I believe we have all power over the enemy and since we are still here then Satan can not come on in the open and do lying wonders. Since Christ left.. Satan has been held back. And that great falling away which use to be "departure" has to happen. So when that "departure" happens... then the restrainer is not holding back the lawless one. And its ok people can still use "departure" any way they want. Departure from the faith or departure form this world.

Are we talking about today? Well we were not promised tomorrow so why not live in the moment He gave us? Have faith now? Live for Him now expect Him now. Its so awesome wonderful blessing to always being ready always thinking of Him ;) No man will glory in His sight. Whats written will happen.. its just not going to turn out like man thinks. The only way the Church will be ready is to be ready now. Tomorrow may never come.. our free choice.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

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Feb 8, 2019
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Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture allowing the antichrist to, without resistance of any significant power, ascend to his place to declare himself the god in the temple?
Yes. Eschatology has been so over-polluted with false teachings in order to hide the antichrist. Eschatology is part of the armor of god.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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God's elect is his Church, the Body of Christ Yeshua.
Colossians 3 (NKJV)
12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
Romans 8 (NKJV)
32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect?
Sure, in THOSE contexts (the ones you happen to be quoting from ^ ), but does this "definition" you are providing hold true in EVERY CONTEXT?

For example, let's insert *your definition* into the following context, and see it it holds true [/consistently]:

"I solemnly charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels [that is, according to BenjaminN's defining, "his Church, the Body of Christ Yeshua"] to maintain these principles without bias, and to do nothing out of partiality." 1 Timothy 5:21

Can we say this is how this "context" defines the word, as you suggest? I say not.

The same can be said of the particular "context" of the passage which HAD BEEN under discussion (i.e. the "elect" mentioned in the OLIVET DISCOURSE... and where Matt24:29-31 parallels Isaiah 27:12-13 [see WHO and HOW, and TO WHERE they are gathered ;) ]... and, as I've mentioned in past posts, Matthew 24 is covering the events that will [all] take place FOLLOWING "our Rapture"... so is not a "Rapture" context, nor a "Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" context [see again Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)])
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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The bible says no man knows the day of Christ's return.

If post tribulation were right, when the antichrist reveals himself at the 3.5 year mark could we not do some simple math and pinpoint the exact day of Christ's return?

If Paul was looking for the Lord to return in his day, shouldn't we?
No one knows when the antichrist will reveal himself, do you?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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And do you know when the great tribulation will start?
The tribulation started when many of them that slept in the dust of the earth rose. :)

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

BenjaminN

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Oct 7, 2020
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The tribulation started when many of them that slept in the dust of the earth rose. :)

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Past tense?
 

AlmondJoy

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Oct 31, 2020
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And do you know when the great tribulation will start?
Why does that matter concerning the point I made?

I do believe though tribulation starts when the church is raptured out of here
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Here’s what we know.
  1. The tribulation and the time of Jacobs trouble are the same.
  2. The time of Jacob's trouble is at the same time that MANY, but not all, that sleep in the dust are raised.
  3. MANY but not ALL of the saints rose with Christ at his resurrection.
  4. ALL, every single person, who has ever died will be raised for judgement in the resurrection.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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K
Do you think Jesus could come back today?
No,

He comeback immediately after tribulation

Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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We know God judges us indirectly through what we see in the OT. He used other nations to Judge his people (indirect judgement)
Ot God judge Israel when they refuse to obey God. Antichrist judge people that obey God and refuse to obey Satan by take the mark