The Talmud

You're on a forum. A forum is what a forum does. If it was a private conversation talk privately, otherwise accept the virtual space you consent to engage in.


Please, don't play the misogynist card with me because it is a dishonest tactic that doesn't work on me. You can't use your gender as a weapon to win an argument with me. I've equally rebuked and corrected you just like I have with gb9 and well as other people on this forum...as well as have been rebuked by you and others...male and female...many times and will continue to as instructed...sister. It's interesting that later on you claim I'm playing victim when you attempt to infer you're a victim of me here.

..But that's interesting that you're going to tell me what *I* perceive or not from your words. That's some magic mental power right there.

Watch...

Q: Is it blasphemous to this faith to say [talmud statement regarding spit, mud, sabbath..]?

A: Yes.

Q: Is saying so antisemitic?

A: No, because that would be silly to say. A book isn't a people.

Amazingly simple. Would've moved on.


It should be there for you as it's what Paul instructed believers to do for each other.

And didn't you just claim we pharisees are unteachable? Doesn't that suggest you attempt to teach (us) as well? Lol you can't hold both positions, either edifying the body through elucidation is right or it's wrong.

...oh wait...are you saying only certain folks are allowed to do it? Certain folks that aren't "us" right? Thaat's what's being said. Ok gotcha.

Just nevermind I asked Kaylagrl... or should I say "kaylaWmn" or "Miss Kayla" or "You" (gender neutral)? Dont want to "talk down" to you.

Questions asked and asked aren't assumptions being made. I don't perform those greasy tactics as some do (won't name their names...). I like to ask a person where they stand instead of telling them where they do. Only after multiple attempts at understanding am I forced to assume if they won't answer.

How haven't I loved you sister? Because I asked you follow up questions? Shall I call you names, would that be the model of love to follow? It's hard to keep this modern form of christianity straight sometimes. I'm an old soul. Subscribed to the old ways.

You sure? You seemed really interested in the last post, with exclamations and everything.

(I wonder what response I'll get if I started addressing you as "daughter" and not sister. Talk about talking down lol but let's allow the double standard.)

One's claim of being a follower of the Master is a complete joke if they can't even abide by the basic foundation to "do unto others". Loud clanging it's all it winds up being.

Ok I'll stop flapping...

Wait, wait!! I'm not following...

You say:

I don't know your answer...but if I would just read I would. But I dont have it now after reading because I want to spin what you believe...even though that's what my questions are seeking from you, what you actually believe?

So you're perturbed that I'm asking you these questions but more perturbed that I have to assume your answer because you won't answer my question??


This is exhausting...nevermind. Be blessed.

You know...it would make more sense if I'm a "pharisee" and Hebrew roots pusher that I'd be in support of the talmud, while other so called "non-pharisees" should be against it, though they're not...and yet I still get called one while showing I'm completely against it lol.

Sometimes people are nonsensical.

Mad world we live in.

SLOW you roll and do not talk down to me. Honest enough?? Now you're calling me dishonest. Do yourself a favor and stop playing the victim here. You zest people then are shocked when you get it back.

Rebuked?! rofl You don't even know what I believe. You took a piece of what I said, assumed the rest and made up a story about who you assume me to be. A victim, of you? Not hardly. You don't even know up from down.

Wasn't talking about the Word, I was talking about your attitude, but you knew that.


And still, we're talking about your attitude. And who are "certain folks" and "us"? No idea what you're getting on with. Alllll kinds of people have come here before you with their message that they came to "preach" to everyone. And when people don't take their "message" they get their nose out of joint, just like you have, and say everyone is wrong and can't understand why those of us who have been here for a long time are sooooo over it. Heard it all before. You just came to "teach" us all with that humble spirit of yours. Ya, got it. News flash, you're not the first and you won't be the last. I'll debate with anyone, but not someone who thinks they have a "special message" and talks down to others when they don't accept it.


And now you're just being a jerk. I will,though, point out that the name is not my name, but my little dog in the picture. She really doesn't care what she's called, though we call her "pretty girl"

Good read my other posts, you'll find I'm never behind the door in giving an answer. But when someone comes with an attitude and tries to put words in my mouth, we're gonna have an issue. Had you acted like a gentleman and didn't twist my words we'd be having a cool discussion right now.

Nope, I'm good on the "what you believe" front.


Not a double standard at all. Sometimes you have to mirror people's attitude back to them. I don't have a problem with people calling me sister or daughter, others on here have done it. I have a problem with people like you who do it in an insincere and condescending attitude.

Now don't go making promises you can't keep...


Arg! So close......


. Whew, finally. Now is that sincere?

If you're speaking to me, I never said you were a Hebrew roots pusher. I did say Pharisee, and I meant in mannerism not as in belief system because I don't know what you believe.

Kayla it happens when they give you too much Ritalin... I prefer the the foil hat.

I fully concur with your estimate. God is indeed not done with Israel as there is still the small matter of the army of 200,000,000 marching towards Israel for the Battle of Armageddon.

You can claim it...doesn't make it true. I'm talking AT you. If you feel I'm talking "down" to you it's only because you put yourself there. Don't put yourself there then. Don't think that way. Give yourself some credit.

I've been trying to find out by asking you wittle old questions but you're too apprehensive to answer them.

And I've been talking about the Word. You want to make it about attitude...from text...over a website.

The following is a lot so I just posted replies in blue...

I give what I get in return. Check out my original reply to you and yours to mine and then see who's attitude needs improvement. You're projecting.

Guilty. Yeah, this is actually true now lol.

Once more, interrogative statements are meant to elicit further information. There were no "so what you're saying is...?" They were questions. Here ya go...

I'd say I was pretty neutral and gracious in acknowledging my lack of understanding as well as the reason for my statement before asking you follow-up questions. Do you expect me to kiss your feet first then ask you questions? Maybe I should've virtually prostrated somehow before offending your notifications with another reply?

Why'd you ask then? Seemed intentional, asking me if the Sabbath was necessary for salvation.

Again, go back to my first reply to you and see who's attitude was a sourpuss, dismissive and who's was neutral...all because of a question you didn't want to answer. *sadface* You project a lot.

I don't say things I don't mean. I don't ask questions I don't want to know the answer to either. Seems strange to do that.

Ok,not going to read all this and respond. My eyes are getting tired and sore. We're starting on square one. Let me introduce myself. I'm from Canada, the eastern part. But over a decade ago I moved south, real far south. Met and married a southerner. No kids, two dogs. Kayla, the one in the pic. She''s an American Eskimo, and I have a German Shepard, Brie.Both are spoiled rotten. Now it's your turn....

Nah I don't want to. "Thou hast offendth me!"

Lol Hi! *waves* How are ya? My name is Joshua. The name was taken so I went with this one since I'm called that too...seemed fine when I chose it. Little did I know it would be such a lightning rod. The picture is of a netzer (a branch that grows out of a root system separate from a dead stump). I'm from the northeast, USA. "City of brotherly love". Not married yet although we seem to be close. The pandemic has made things pretty stressful. Have a cat I've inherited; a black Egyptian Mau. I come here to read mostly, not really participating much except to contribute when I feel compelled to, which is why I only have about 1800 posts in 7 years. I'm pretty chill and most things can run off my back, but I can be a "smart behind" when I get going.

Great! Friends!

Hey Joshua!!

Whew! That feels a lot better. Now you can call me sister, brother. I've done a lot of traveling when I was in ministry. Never made to Philly. did get to Pittsburg though. Then a lot of driving through states going up and down the coast. I'm in Ky myself, it's beautiful here but I do miss the ocean, being from Nova Scotia. Sure don't miss the snow though.

Ok, so with the Talmud, less we be accused of derailing a thread, I do not have a problem with fair criticism. My issue is down through history people who are anti- Semitic have lied about what the Talmud says. They have been persecuted because of it. Blood libels for instance, various canards. See where I'm coming from?"

p.s If you have found that special someone, make sure you make her your wife asap. I was in my 40s before I met my hubby. And we try to make every day count. He's my best friend and I don't know where I'd be without him. You won't regret it.

I've never been to Canada and would like to see it one day when things settle down. Speaking of settling down, I will indeed do it asap. I envy generations before mine when people weren't so poisoned by technology mixed with the modern dating culture, needed everything so quickly. So I've taken my time to make sure we're ready. She's called me her best friend too, so maybe that means I'm doing things right so far...so far lol. I remain faithful.

Yes, understandable. The persecution of the Jews has been relentless throughout the centuries, from corrupting their writings to the inquisitions to outright blame for diseases & plagues, and - without going down a rabbit hole - this is why I strongly feel (after study and analysis of history) their "time of trouble" has been ongoing since the temple was destroyed (with the time, times, and a half prophecy spanning 1260 years rather than days, since the construction of the Dome of the Rock), and so is not future; but rather just ending in 1945-1948...immediately after which we've begun to see signs in the heaven and in the earth to lead us to the coming Messiah. Of course, this is another conversation, another debate.

I also believe there are unfinished prophecies regarding the original people of the book that the Almighty promises to fulfill...So I'd be the first to side with you against any antisemitism, particularly with corrupting their writings. Agreed.

With that said, I've also seen evidence of many Jewish people (though certainly not all, so please don't take this as a generalization) take advantage of this tragic history, and misuse that word when any fair criticism was levied against anything tied to them from governmental policies of the state of Israel to religious teachings like those found in the talmud. And so I thought that was the case earlier. I still haven't found that video clip...

----

But concerning the talmud itself; Jewish believers in the Messiah ("messianics") and Karite Jews (non-believers in the Messiah but staunch observers of the OT) have found contradictions between teachings in the talmud versus the torah. And when found were told by Rabbis that the torah yields to the interpretation of the talmud (since the talmud is the collection of oral torah).

We've seen this policy before with the Catholic Church, saying that the scriptures can only be interpreted through the lens of the magisterium (or established church tradition)...A Nicolaitan ("rule over laity") dynamic eventually leading to the reformation.

...and if we entertain for a moment that there is an ongoing spiritual war being waged by the forces of evil against the Almighty's complete flock, it's plausible and likely that the same exact spiritual battle has been waged on the Jewish front as it has been on the Christian front. So we most likely have another instance of sola scriptura v. man-made traditions with the torah and talmud. Another Nicolaitan dynamic but with Rabbis instead of Priests.

I think they were chosen as the people through whom the Savior would come. Once Jesus came into the world, jews became no more special than anyone else. Now their whole identity is caught up in the active rejection of Jesus.

Jews have been at war with Christianity from the time of Christ. I think this whole dispensational movement is the result of jewish infiltration into Christianity. "By way of deception we wage war." - Israeli mossad. What better way for the enemies of God to do their work than to twist Christianity into a religion that practically worships those who reject Jesus?

No, not so, still the chosen people. Doesn't make them better, just chosen. Read Romans 11. Rejection of Christ is temporary, many Jews will come to recognize Him.



Well Christianity hasn't been overly kind to the Jews either, now has it? Jews are blinded for a time. As Romans says. God isn't through with the Jewish people. If He is, then He is a liar because He said His promises were everlasting.

Yes, I didn't "rush" so to speak. We made a commitment and stayed faithful to each other. Hubby said once, "you never once asked or hinted about a ring" I said "no, I wanted you to make the decision, I didn't think pushing would help you make the right decision". Best friends is a must. You'll go through a lot together and a firm foundation will help you through. I wish you both great happiness and many years together.



Yes, ITA with all of that. But when I mention this to many Christians they think I'm Jewish myself or have some "roots" belief. I don't, I just have an issue with the Replacement Theology. It has done much damage to reaching the Jewish people with the Gospel. Right now they are blinded, but they won't be always and many will come to know Him.




Exactly, now I've never read the Talmud and I'm sure there is plenty there I would disagree with doctrinally but I'm talking corrupting of their writings.


Certainly I'm sure there are some who would do so. But usually Jews don't like to be seen as victims from anyone I have known.

Yes, I do realize Rabbis can be very dogmatic. I was on a Jewish forum once and it was very interesting. The views were quite wide. They didn't have an issue that I was a Christian, only that I didn't preach my beliefs, which seemed fair to me. I got some very interesting answers to my questions.


Yes, I agree. So many things I could agree with Catholics on but many I don't and couldn't because I believe it is directly against the Word. They started out in the right direction but quickly became corrupted.


True enough, we know the Jews are blinded for a time. I would guess satan is working over time on all fronts. But I do try not to hamper reaching out with the Gospel to anyone. Now my parents neighbors are Jewish but Christians. They do still have church on the Sabbath, though they don't see that as a salvic issue. Very sweet people.

BenjaminN said:
Is it true that there is blasphemous Talmudic passages, that referred to Jesus Christs' / Yeshua ha'Mashiach's (and do they refer to Him as Yeshu - the cursed, not Yeshua - the Saviour) punishment in hell, where he will boil in excrement?


Seems like either you, kaylagrl, owe Wikipedia an apology for accusing its writers as "Anti-Semitic", or Wikipedia owes you an apology for misrepresentation and being "anti-Semitic".

Sometimes it seems the dreaded racist slogan of "Anti-Semitic" is a bit abused. Anti anything may be deduced as hate, so lets rather stay with facts before bearing false witness against our neighbour, by falsely accusing innocent people of hate, by covering up for hateful references.

Would it not be an "Anti-Semitic" hateful reference, if it would find to be true, that the Talmud did indeed refer to God's Son, our King, a certain very well known, slandered as Yeshu (Yeshua ha'Maschiach / Jesus the Messiah) Semite man in the following manner: "his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement."


Deuteronomy 5 (ESV)

11 "'You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. 20 "'And you shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.


According to me, Christians would be very difficult to be found blanketly "anti-Semitic" against the whole Semite race, because they walk in the footsteps of one of the greatest Semites of all times, Jesus Christ, Yeshua ha'Maschiach.

There might seem to be however, a certain sub-set of Semites ( that sub-set of the descendants or adoptants of Sem, through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the Jews, from Jacob's tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, exclusive of Jacob's Ephramites, the other ten tribes of Israel ) , that do not honour their own, most famous Semite of all time (as he was of the Jewish 'sect' of the Nazarenes, and not of the Talmudic Pharisees and Saducees):

From Wikipedia Article: Jesus in the Talmud , subsection Specific references , third paragraph :
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_the_Talmud#Specific_references )

" In Gittin 56b and 57a,[81] a story is told in which Onkelos summons up the spirit of a Yeshu who sought to harm Israel. He describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement.[82][83] "

To the extent that they reject Jesus, they are firmly in they synagogue of satan. I'm sure a few will come to believe and trust in Jesus. Just like some atheists and sodomites will probably also reject satan and embrace Christianity.

Romans 11, be careful of your attitude...

Romans 11 (ESV)

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written, "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day." 11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! 15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree. 25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob"; 27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."


The time of the Gentiles will come into fulfilment if the Gospel of the Kingdom has been proclaimed worldwide among the Gentiles and Ephraim scattered among the Gentiles, and Judah among the Jews will be the last to turn to Jesus Christ / Yeshua ha'Mashiach, before his return to this earth with the rapture of those who believe unto him, Jew and Gentile, Judah and Ephraim alike:

Zechariah 12 (ESV)

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.


Zephaniah 3 (ESV)

9 "For at that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call upon the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord. 10 From beyond the rivers of Cush my worshipers, the daughter of my dispersed ones, shall bring my offering. 11 "On that day you shall not be put to shame because of the deeds by which you have rebelled against me; for then I will remove from your midst your proudly exultant ones, and you shall no longer be haughty in my holy mountain. 12 But I will leave in your midst a people humble and lowly. They shall seek refuge in the name of the Lord, 13 those who are left in Israel; they shall do no injustice and speak no lies, nor shall there be found in their mouth a deceitful tongue. For they shall graze and lie down, and none shall make them afraid." 14 Sing aloud, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel! Rejoice and exult with all your heart, O daughter of Jerusalem! 15 The Lord has taken away the judgments against you; he has cleared away your enemies. The King of Israel, the Lord, is in your midst; you shall never again fear evil.

Yes many of them.are.coming back to Israel from all over the world. Many from Russia, Ukraine, Ethiopia and even lately,.the far East