Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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lenna

Guest
#21
#21
Nehemiah6 said:
While I disagree with MacArthur on several matters, if you are suggesting that repentance is not necessary for salvation, then that contradicts Acts 2:38 (and Acts 3:19). And if you are suggesting that receiving Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior is not necessary for salvation, then you are contradicting Acts 2:36.

When Paul said "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31) he included the Lordship of Christ in faith towards Christ. When he said "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus" (Rom 10:9) and "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved" (Rom 10:13), he meant the same thing.

This is not an "additional layer of requirement". To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe that He is both Lord of the universe, Lord of the Church, and Lord and Master of every believer, as well as the Savior of the world. Which means that Christians cannot do as the please, or believe as they please.
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I was 5. I didn't know what I was getting into. I believed. and I know Jesus became my Savior

Jesus said suffer the little children to come unto me. I did.

OF COURSE JESUS IS LORD WHICH MAKES ALL THE MASSAGING OF THAT CONCEPT SPURIOUS

Jesus also said 'And why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I say?' Luke 6:46

I hope that explains it
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#22
Aug 4, 2020
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#22
Nehemiah6 said:
While I disagree with MacArthur on several matters, if you are suggesting that repentance is not necessary for salvation, then that contradicts Acts 2:38 (and Acts 3:19). And if you are suggesting that receiving Christ as BOTH Lord and Savior is not necessary for salvation, then you are contradicting Acts 2:36.

When Paul said "Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31) he included the Lordship of Christ in faith towards Christ. When he said "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD Jesus" (Rom 10:9) and "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved" (Rom 10:13), he meant the same thing.

This is not an "additional layer of requirement". To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to believe that He is both Lord of the universe, Lord of the Church, and Lord and Master of every believer, as well as the Savior of the world. Which means that Christians cannot do as the please, or believe as they please.
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Kurios = Lord = God . Thats the point of Romans 10.9 . Believing he is kurios is the point .Peter is addressing Jews in Acts 2 and 3 .
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#25
Jul 18, 2017
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#25
throughfaith said:
Kurios = Lord = God . Thats the point of Romans 10.9 . Believing he is kurios is the point .Peter is addressing Jews in Acts 2 and 3 .
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Yes. Jesus is God. But when we see the word "Lord" this is what it reflects (Mt 28:18; Phil 2:10,11):

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth... That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#26
Jul 18, 2017
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#26
lenna said:
OF COURSE JESUS IS LORD WHICH MAKES ALL THE MASSAGING OF THAT CONCEPT SPURIOUS
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So you are trying to dismiss Bible truth as "massaging of that concept"? Looks like you still don't get it.

There is nothing spurious in standing fast on Bible truth and Gospel truth, particularly in this day and age.
 
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lenna

Guest
#27
#27
Nehemiah6 said:
So you are trying to dismiss Bible truth as "massaging of that concept"? Looks like you still don't get it.

There is nothing spurious in standing fast on Bible truth and Gospel truth, particularly in this day and age.
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oh I just love it when someone puts words in another persons mouth in a way that suggests 'I've got you now'

I can see you have the wool pulled over your eyes on this one

a person does not become a discerning expert because they watched a video. I would think you would be more concerned about the ramifications that person will have in the lives of others who do not meet her expectations according to MacArthur

that is the actual problem in this thread.
 
Blik

Blik

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#28
Dec 6, 2016
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#28
Salvation is simple, and we are to keep that as our primary consideration. It is fine to think about predestination, Sabbath keeping, Lordship Salvation, Calvinism, or any of the other things argued about, but we are to hold fast to the way of salvation.

We are clearly told what makes for salvation, and after that how to live with the Lord. The gospel is first, to take our sins to Christ for forgiveness. Then comes repentance and water baptism. Then the receiving of the Holy Spirit. When that is done, we are to receive those who share that with acceptance and love.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#29
Aug 4, 2020
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#29
Nehemiah6 said:
Yes. Jesus is God. But when we see the word "Lord" this is what it reflects (Mt 28:18; Phil 2:10,11):

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth... That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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I think its the same point that I made for Rom 10.9 .
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#30
Aug 4, 2020
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#30
let's not make it hard to believe for the lost . And let's not make it difficult for believers.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#31
Jul 18, 2017
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#31
throughfaith said:
I think its the same point that I made for Rom 10.9 .
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The point is that God the Father has given God the Son all power and authority in Heaven and on earth. Therefore it is Christ who is the Head of the Church, and it is Christ who is also King of kings and LORD of lords on earth after His Second Coming. After all things have become subject to Christ, He will hand over the Kingdom of God to God the Father. See 1 Corinthians 15.

Those who scoff at Lordship salvation don't understand the meaning of either Lordship or salvation. It has nothing to do with salvation by works.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#32
Aug 4, 2020
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#32
Nehemiah6 said:
The point is that God the Father has given God the Son all power and authority in Heaven and on earth. Therefore it is Christ who is the Head of the Church, and it is Christ who is also King of kings and LORD of lords on earth after His Second Coming. After all things have become subject to Christ, He will hand over the Kingdom of God to God the Father. See 1 Corinthians 15.

Those who scoff at Lordship salvation don't understand the meaning of either Lordship or salvation. It has nothing to do with salvation by works.
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Its Affirming who HE IS which is the point. Lordship salvation does go into works salvation, PRACTICALLY. Its a way for the legalists to smuggle in control of the church and how to manipulate the saints.Its the Galatian error .
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#33
Aug 4, 2020
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#33
throughfaith said:
Its Affirming who HE IS which is the point. Lordship salvation does go into works salvation, PRACTICALLY. Its a way for the legalists to smuggle in control of the church and how to manipulate the saints.Its the Galatian error .
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sanctification has a twofold application in scripture. First, one is sanctified by the Spirit when he is saved and put into the body of Christ. Secondly, he is "called" to be sanctified. In other words, he is called to personal sanctification where his walk will match his position as a son of God.

Here, is a passage that speaks of the first. Check it out.

2 Thess 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning (the beginning for gentiles was in Acts 10) chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. (this verse speaks of predestination to a glorified body)

Here are a couple that speaks of the second:


1 Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

Set apart "in" Christ Jesus but called to be set apart. The context will explain why and how.

Here is another;

2 Tim 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

The purpose of God in Christ is the same here as it is in Rom 8 and Eph 1, and that purpose is to form the body of Christ, "now" as it is said in v 10, and then to glorify it, the immortality of the body, which is future. Eternal life comes before the immortality of the body.

Our calling as the body of Christ is to glory! This is the ultimate sanctification
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#34
Aug 4, 2020
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#34
Magenta said:
I agree that gotquestions is a very good resource, but I also know they are not without error. Discretion is advised, always :)
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Got questions are Calvinists
Magenta said:
I agree that gotquestions is a very good resource, but I also know they are not without error. Discretion is advised, always :)
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As a new believer I unwittingly used what i thought was a unbiased resource ( Got questions) without realising i was soaking up reformed doctrines which I had to de programme from later . Many non calvinst churches even recommend Got questions .
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#35
Dec 15, 2018
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#35
I used to google got questions a lot when I first believed but then found out when I actually asked them a question they didnt have the answer to, they didnt really know how to answer it and where kind of waffly about it.

so I stopped going there and just read the Bible instead.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#36
May 23, 2016
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#36
MyrtleTrees said:
Well, I do not see lorship salvation to be incorrect or unbiblical. I am not proud. I just believe the Bible for what I see it to say, and believe it is important to do that and to not just believe what we want to believe about how to follow God and how to please Him.

I of course, agree with you, that easy believism is not something that can save a person, as I've said.
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The term 'lordship salvation" means different things to different people. I say just go by what the Bible says. Scripture is very clear on the importance of both repentance and believing. Jesus is both Lord and Saviour, and no one's belief or theology will change that. He desires to be the Lord and Saviour of all of us.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

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#37
Sep 28, 2015
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#37
My advice, don't listen to anyone......when the Lord says to study to be approved He did not mean listening to tapes, TV sermons, catching the latest on YouGullibleTube, or reading entertaining books on every subject in the bible to which each author brings their own prejudices.

The scriptures are able to speak for themselves if you have eyes to see.

AND.......I see some labeling and judgements that are rude and uninformed aimed at those who do not share the opinion of the Fascists who insist it is their way or the highway. Even in the title of this thread there is labeling that is a dog whistle for those who hold those differing positions. I don't stand with them but sarcasm has no place among people of good will.
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There is one Lord, one faith and one baptism, ...... I say debate not with tongues of fire......for iron sharpens iron and good conversation to exchange ideas is the real point of forums.

So as a Sovereign Grace believer, and on behalf of my fellow heirs, ........stuff it.
 
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ForestGreenCook

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#38
Jul 8, 2018
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#38
MyrtleTrees said:
Last night, in YouTube, I listened to gotquetions.org, on the subject of lordship salvation. The speaker said that only lordship salvation saves. Anything less than that, is "easy believism" - and isn't able to save anyone. I also listened to John MacArthur in Youtube - preaching on the subject. He said Jesus and the apostles preached the need for repentance and the need to accept Jesus as Lord, in order for anyone to get saved. He mentioned a lot of Bible verses giving proof of this. He said many think they're saved, by praying the "sinner's prayer of repentance" - but make no effort to change their lives for the better. He said the word "repentance" means, "changing one's way of thinking - plans to do things differently." Both of these speakers said that belief isn't enough to save anyone. Only if coupled with repentance, does it save anyone. And many verses mentioned - showed repentace as preceding baptism and salvation - that's how the verses were worded! The verses mentioned repentance, before mentioningn all the other.
I've observed, that many evidently - true Christians believe that repentance isn't a necessary part to receiving salvation. I believe some of these Christians are true Christians. Since they appear to be walking in obedience to Christ in their daily lives. But their theology - their way of explaining it to others is incorrect. And so has the potential for misleading other people into "easy believism." With the result of their dying without Christ, often.
I talked to the husband of the home we clean house at yesterday about this, and he said that he has also noticed that many true Christians don't understand the subject the same as we do - who do see the need for repentance. He agreed it is hard for them to change their views on the subject, as they've learned incorrectly on it from habit and through people who taught that way. He said we must be loving towards them, though we can't agree on this subject - which is true, according to the Bible. But we dhould pray that they come to understand correctly on the subject.

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I have been accused of thinking "lordship salvation" What does it mean?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#39
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#39
GraceAndTruth said:
My advice, don't listen to anyone......when the Lord says to study to be approved He did not mean listening to tapes, TV sermons, catching the latest on YouGullibleTube, or reading entertaining books on every subject in the bible to which each author brings their own prejudices.

The scriptures are able to speak for themselves if you have eyes to see.

AND.......I see some labeling and judgements that are rude and uninformed aimed at those who do not share the opinion of the Fascists who insist it is their way or the highway. Even in the title of this thread there is labeling that is a dog whistle for those who hold those differing positions. I don't stand with them but sarcasm has no place among people of good will.
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There is one Lord, one faith and one baptism, ...... I say debate not with tongues of fire......for iron sharpens iron and good conversation to exchange ideas is the real point of forums.

So as a Sovereign Grace believer, and on behalf of my fellow heirs, ........stuff it.
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I am with you sister, Scripture proves scripture, and should be our only source of counsel, along with the revelation of the Holy Spirit.
 
GraceAndTruth

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
#40
Sep 28, 2015
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#40
Repentance in scripture is not an action of the flesh. but the action of the heart, the changing of one's mind.

[tho flesh usually follows the heart]

A leader of a bible study once said that sin begins in the mind. So true.
Thought = Desire=Action

Thoughts are hard to control, but as the saying goes:
You can't stop a bird from landing on your head but you can keep it from building a nest!
 
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