Did the apostles teach baptism?
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Yes, I am aware of verse five in that chapter. 5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth,[k] unless a person is born of water and spirit,[l] he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh,[m] and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all[n] be born from above.’[o] 8 The wind[p] blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”[q]
FOOTNOTE
[l]tn Or “born of water and wind” (the same Greek word, πνεύματος [pneumatos], may be translated either “spirit/Spirit” or “wind”). sn Jesus’ somewhat enigmatic statement points to the necessity of being born “from above,” because water and wind/spirit/Spirit come from above. Isaiah 44:3-5 and Ezek 37:9-10 are pertinent examples of water and wind as life-giving symbols of the Spirit of God in his work among people. Both occur in contexts that deal with the future restoration of Israel as a nation prior to the establishment of the messianic kingdom. It is therefore particularly appropriate that Jesus should introduce them in a conversation about entering the kingdom of God. Note that the Greek word πνεύματος is anarthrous (has no article) in v. 5. This does not mean that spirit in the verse should be read as a direct reference to the Holy Spirit, but that both water and wind are figures (based on passages in the OT, which Nicodemus, the teacher of Israel should have known) that represent the regenerating work of the Spirit in the lives of men and women.
I am also aware of the first part of verse 5. Unless a man is born of water....
Was John the Baptist actually John the ritual washer? Per the prior contention that Baptism in John 3 is a reference to a type of ritual washing. Because verse 25 tells us there was a dispute concerning the ceremonial washing.
Which is where some can become confused due to the reference , washing.
Unless or until they read verse 26. Which is not telling us John the Baptist was performing ceremonial washing of people.
John 3:25 Now a dispute came about between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[ba] concerning ceremonial washing.[bb] 26 So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River,[bc] about whom you testified—see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!”
This is another reason why it is important for the Christian to understand the Jewish practices of the time and of course the 1st century culture wherein Jesus walked and taught the Gospel. We should also remember Jesus was born into a Jewish family and followed Jewish tradition and the law of God. Baptism is not unique to Christianity.
Did you happen to read the linked article I shared? Understanding The Hebrew Mikveh vs Baptism
A true Hebrew MIKVEH is accomplished by a person completely submersing oneself beneath water…a FULL BODY IMMERSION wherein the entire being goes below the water’s surface.
(Please note: a proper MIKVEH is NOT simply taking a bath! In fact, according to ancient tradition, whenever possible, the one seeking to mikveh should shower, bathe, or clean him/her PRIOR TO entering the Mikveh site whenever possible.)
FOOTNOTE
[l]tn Or “born of water and wind” (the same Greek word, πνεύματος [pneumatos], may be translated either “spirit/Spirit” or “wind”). sn Jesus’ somewhat enigmatic statement points to the necessity of being born “from above,” because water and wind/spirit/Spirit come from above. Isaiah 44:3-5 and Ezek 37:9-10 are pertinent examples of water and wind as life-giving symbols of the Spirit of God in his work among people. Both occur in contexts that deal with the future restoration of Israel as a nation prior to the establishment of the messianic kingdom. It is therefore particularly appropriate that Jesus should introduce them in a conversation about entering the kingdom of God. Note that the Greek word πνεύματος is anarthrous (has no article) in v. 5. This does not mean that spirit in the verse should be read as a direct reference to the Holy Spirit, but that both water and wind are figures (based on passages in the OT, which Nicodemus, the teacher of Israel should have known) that represent the regenerating work of the Spirit in the lives of men and women.
I am also aware of the first part of verse 5. Unless a man is born of water....
Was John the Baptist actually John the ritual washer? Per the prior contention that Baptism in John 3 is a reference to a type of ritual washing. Because verse 25 tells us there was a dispute concerning the ceremonial washing.
Which is where some can become confused due to the reference , washing.
Unless or until they read verse 26. Which is not telling us John the Baptist was performing ceremonial washing of people.
John 3:25 Now a dispute came about between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[ba] concerning ceremonial washing.[bb] 26 So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River,[bc] about whom you testified—see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!”
This is another reason why it is important for the Christian to understand the Jewish practices of the time and of course the 1st century culture wherein Jesus walked and taught the Gospel. We should also remember Jesus was born into a Jewish family and followed Jewish tradition and the law of God. Baptism is not unique to Christianity.
Did you happen to read the linked article I shared? Understanding The Hebrew Mikveh vs Baptism
A true Hebrew MIKVEH is accomplished by a person completely submersing oneself beneath water…a FULL BODY IMMERSION wherein the entire being goes below the water’s surface.
(Please note: a proper MIKVEH is NOT simply taking a bath! In fact, according to ancient tradition, whenever possible, the one seeking to mikveh should shower, bathe, or clean him/her PRIOR TO entering the Mikveh site whenever possible.)
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John3:5 does not just say born of water, though, but water and the Spirit... and you affirm that these are given from above. I am uncertain of your point regarding the dispute around John the Baptist baptizing, which was identified in the same chapter as a ceremonial cleansing. Back to water being from above: the word is used metaphorically throughout Scripture, too many times to enumerate. In Ezekiel 36:25, do you think it is H20 that is sprinkled on us to make us clean? I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. Isaiah 12:3 ~ With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. Is this H20? Likewise the woman at the well (John 4:10-15, given below), where Jesus contrasts His water with the water people drink and wash with and everything else; and Rev 21:6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life; or Rev 22:17? The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life. Jesus Himself is said to have the voice of many waters.
John 4:10-15 Jesus answered, “If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
“Sir,” the woman replied, “You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where then will You get this living water? Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock?”
Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.”
The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water so that I will not get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”
Revelation 22:16-17
John 4:10-15 Jesus answered, “If you knew the gift of God and who is asking you for a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
“Sir,” the woman replied, “You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where then will You get this living water? Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us this well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock?”
Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a fount of water springing up to eternal life.”
The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water so that I will not get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”
Revelation 22:16-17
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I sit amazed at how dedicated some are to insist on disobeying one of Jesus commands. Baptism. No one has said Baptism saves. However, Baptism is an integral part of our Salvation. Sadly, there are denominational teachings that impart falsity as concerns Baptism.
Jesus said there are two requirements to be saved. One is Baptism. Baptized by water and Baptized by the holy spirit, born again. Woe to those believers in denominational false teachings that dismiss the importance of Baptism. And deny Jesus teachings concerning that importance.
Also it is amazing disrespect for Jesus teaching concerning Salvation and Baptism to denigrate Baptism as, "Dipped in water". That doesn't make your case. It hurts it.
Maybe the wedding in Cana is a deeper story than what appears on the surface. Maybe it is full of symbolism that would speak to a certain people, the Galileans. The replenished wine in stone jars, very expensive, therefore it is likely the home wherein these stone jars were stored was that of a high priest. Stone jars, compared to clay ones that due to Jewish purity laws would have to be smashed after first use. Perhaps the message of the Cana wedding was that which pertains to the Rapture.
Because if Jesus blood is all that saves, and dipping in water means nothing as some here seem to insist is true in their own way, otherwise if it was of God they'd likely not disrespect Baptism by referring to it as dipping in water, then Jesus was errant in speaking about Baptism anywhere at all in his teachings to Jewish people.
People who would be aware of the meaning of ritual submersion so as to purify one of their sins and reconnect to the Torah.
Hebrew Yisraelites would undergo a full water mikveh to publicly demonstrate their desire to perform “Teshuvah”…meaning to “turn from their sins and RETURN to Torah”.
This is the act that Yohanan the Immerser (aka John the Baptist) was performing with the Yisraelites at the Jordan River! He was immersing them into a Mikveh for the purpose of demonstrating their desire to perform Teshuvah and “turn from their Sin and return to Torah”! This explains biblical references to John performing a baptism of repentance with his cry of “Repent!”
“Yoḥanan came immersing in the wilderness and proclaiming an immersion of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” Marqos (Mark) 1:4
1 Peter 3:21
21 And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you[an]—not the washing off of physical dirt[ao] but the pledge[ap] of a good conscience to God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
“We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” Romans 6:4
Jesus said there are two requirements to be saved. One is Baptism. Baptized by water and Baptized by the holy spirit, born again. Woe to those believers in denominational false teachings that dismiss the importance of Baptism. And deny Jesus teachings concerning that importance.
Also it is amazing disrespect for Jesus teaching concerning Salvation and Baptism to denigrate Baptism as, "Dipped in water". That doesn't make your case. It hurts it.
Maybe the wedding in Cana is a deeper story than what appears on the surface. Maybe it is full of symbolism that would speak to a certain people, the Galileans. The replenished wine in stone jars, very expensive, therefore it is likely the home wherein these stone jars were stored was that of a high priest. Stone jars, compared to clay ones that due to Jewish purity laws would have to be smashed after first use. Perhaps the message of the Cana wedding was that which pertains to the Rapture.
Because if Jesus blood is all that saves, and dipping in water means nothing as some here seem to insist is true in their own way, otherwise if it was of God they'd likely not disrespect Baptism by referring to it as dipping in water, then Jesus was errant in speaking about Baptism anywhere at all in his teachings to Jewish people.
People who would be aware of the meaning of ritual submersion so as to purify one of their sins and reconnect to the Torah.
Hebrew Yisraelites would undergo a full water mikveh to publicly demonstrate their desire to perform “Teshuvah”…meaning to “turn from their sins and RETURN to Torah”.
This is the act that Yohanan the Immerser (aka John the Baptist) was performing with the Yisraelites at the Jordan River! He was immersing them into a Mikveh for the purpose of demonstrating their desire to perform Teshuvah and “turn from their Sin and return to Torah”! This explains biblical references to John performing a baptism of repentance with his cry of “Repent!”
“Yoḥanan came immersing in the wilderness and proclaiming an immersion of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.” Marqos (Mark) 1:4
1 Peter 3:21
21 And this prefigured baptism, which now saves you[an]—not the washing off of physical dirt[ao] but the pledge[ap] of a good conscience to God—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
“We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.” Romans 6:4
I never omitted spirit from John3:5.
5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth,[k] unless a person is born of water and spirit,[l] he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
How is that possible? When it was you who referred to the washing? Link
I agree. Baptism in John 3 is referred to as a ceremonial washing.
Compare to earlier in same chapter where Jesus speaks of the necessity of being born again of the Spirit.
No, we're not going to go to the discussion of water being from above. We're discussing Baptism. Jesus and the water of life are actually synonymous with Baptism.
To tell you the truth I"m not interested in continuing in this line with you because I don't appreciate the patent sarcasm you levy in order to denigrate Baptism. Dipping in water and H20 sprinkled on us, etc....
You appear not to be able to discuss this without your personal objection to Baptism including those type slights toward Baptism itself.
That's a pity.
5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth,[k] unless a person is born of water and spirit,[l] he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
How is that possible? When it was you who referred to the washing? Link
I agree. Baptism in John 3 is referred to as a ceremonial washing.
Compare to earlier in same chapter where Jesus speaks of the necessity of being born again of the Spirit.
No, we're not going to go to the discussion of water being from above. We're discussing Baptism. Jesus and the water of life are actually synonymous with Baptism.
To tell you the truth I"m not interested in continuing in this line with you because I don't appreciate the patent sarcasm you levy in order to denigrate Baptism. Dipping in water and H20 sprinkled on us, etc....
You appear not to be able to discuss this without your personal objection to Baptism including those type slights toward Baptism itself.
That's a pity.
Interestingly, that missing verse 37, found on the KJV, tells us what gospel did Philip preached to the Ethopian
KJV: And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he [the Eunuch] answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
which was the same gospel of the kingdom preached during the time period of the 4 Gospels. (John 20:31).
He did not say "I believe Jesus died for my sins and rose again on the 3rd day" (1 Cor 15:1-4)
KJV: And Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he [the Eunuch] answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
which was the same gospel of the kingdom preached during the time period of the 4 Gospels. (John 20:31).
He did not say "I believe Jesus died for my sins and rose again on the 3rd day" (1 Cor 15:1-4)
No I didn't. As you proved.
You let your sharing of my post that included a link/quote to my post #142 prove you're wrong.(post 142) Yes, I am aware of verse five in that chapter. 5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth,[k] unless a person is born of water and spirit,[l] he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh,[m] and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all[n] be born from above.’[o] 8 The wind[p] blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”[q]
You let your sharing of my post that included a link/quote to my post #142 prove you're wrong.
(post 142) Yes, I am aware of verse five in that chapter. 5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth,[k] unless a person is born of water and spirit,[l] he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh,[m] and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all[n] be born from above.’[o] 8 The wind[p] blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”[q]No, I'm taking them to the source that makes their posts that refer to dipping in water and H20 sprinkling.
As to the rest, baptism not important, that would be the other one whom I have said I am finished speaking with.
Therefore, there are no false accusations. If you wanted me to name your offense as I see it specifically, I just did.
Take your anger and hatred with you.
As to the rest, baptism not important, that would be the other one whom I have said I am finished speaking with.
Therefore, there are no false accusations. If you wanted me to name your offense as I see it specifically, I just did.
Take your anger and hatred with you.
This is why I wonder if anyone else uses your account. You claimed I did once, and in the course of doing that you excerpted in quote form that what linked to my post #145. Therefore post 145 proves I never did ignore spirit in my post 145.
And that proved you were false in your accusation.
Noted as your post of 11 minutes ago your post 151:
soggykitten said:
I never omitted spirit from John3:5.
(You claimed)Yes you did:
(And then you linked to my post 145) soggykitten said:
I am also aware of the first part of verse 5. Unless a man is born of water....
Your mistake is to think omitting my reference to spirit in post 145 makes your accusation I omitted spirit from my post 145 that you linked an excerpt of to prove your accusation, true.
But it doesn't. As my post 145 proves.
And that proved you were false in your accusation.
Noted as your post of 11 minutes ago your post 151:
soggykitten said:
I never omitted spirit from John3:5.
(You claimed)Yes you did:
(And then you linked to my post 145) soggykitten said:
I am also aware of the first part of verse 5. Unless a man is born of water....
Your mistake is to think omitting my reference to spirit in post 145 makes your accusation I omitted spirit from my post 145 that you linked an excerpt of to prove your accusation, true.
But it doesn't. As my post 145 proves.