Discussion on the End Times

You can stand by it all you want

god made a covenant with the blood family of abraham all the way back in Gen 15. He confirmed it in 17 and also confirmed it to his son and his grandson, and he spoke of it I Lev 26, even telling them what would happen if they turned away up to total military defeat and tearing down his high places,

this was fulfilled because of sin,by assyria when they drove isreal, out, and Babylon until today when judah fell (judah was never fully reinstated, they remained as slaves up until rome totally Removed hem from the land and destroyed their high places And sanctuary.

ez 37 also confirmed what Lev 26 said wou”d happen if even after they are defeated by gentiles,if they remember God and confess their sin to him, including the fact God removed them from the land because of their sin and the sin of their fathers, god would REMEMBER the covenant he would remember the land, as god sai I will take Isreal and judah and make them one nation IN THE LAND AGAIN.

again, key word, he took them out because of their sin, and will return them because they repent.
it has nothing to do with heaven, eternal life or heavenly things, someone has fooled you into thinking we think it does, they were wrong.

again, read the passages I keep showing you, or continue to deny, the choice is up to you.

I have failed nothing! But you have failed to read Revelation, as well as the other scriptures that I provided. God has not abandoned His people Israel. And by your claim against them, you are guilty of boasting against the branches. Here it is again. Read it and don't just gloss over it because of your adopted a false teaching:

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As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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As the scripture above states, God has had mercy on us Gentiles by revealing His Son to us. And just as we were once disobedient and had mercy on us, Israel has become disobedient so that God may have mercy on them as well. Read the scripture above! After the church has been removed, God will pick up where He left off with His people Israel during that last seven years to pour out His wrath and to bring them to the knowledge of His Son, whom they rejected. At come point during that last 3 1/2 years, the unbelieving nation of Israel will say "Bless is He who comes in the name of the Lord." So please stop with your false teachings, which is all that they are. The following is what God is going to fulfill regarding His people Israel:

"Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Why would God care for His people out in the wilderness for 3 1/2 years only to destroy them?

All you've been doing is listening to the false teachings of men. And you'd better figure out whose side you're on, because as it is your spirit is against Israel. "Whoever blesses you, I will bless! And whoever curses you I will curse!" This is still in affect, so if I were you I'd repent and confess it.

And that is all that I am going to say on this subject. As the scripture says, God has given Israel over to disobedience so that He may have mercy on them.

I already know how hard it is for people who have decided what they want the Lord to do for them, to read or even consider an alternative scenario for the events of the end times.
So; nothing further can be gained on the issue of who is the true Israel of God. Whether it is the Jews or the faithful Christians, will be revealed as events unfold. Those who had it wrong may bitterly regret their error.

You will bitterly regret your error. It’s sad you did not even read the passages which you were Directed to in this and Yout other thread,

good day sir,

Your Claim Is False, This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Dissolved) By The Lord's Fire In Final Judgement.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

It is this false teaching of interpreting the church as referring to Israel that is the error. As I said previously, the seventy seven year periods listed in Daniel 9:24 were/are decreed upon Daniel's people Israel and the holy city Jerusalem. That last seven years of that seventy sevens is still future and is apart of that decree to the people of Israel and Jerusalem. Therefore, the decree is not to the church. The church did not magically transform into Israel nor are the promises to Israel transferred over to the church. God has not abandoned His people Israel.

You need to repent of this teaching, because it puts you as being against and therefore, against God.

Two Israel's Are Seen Below, Two

1.) Israel Of The Flesh, Ethnic Jews Are Not The Children Of God, Simple

2.) Israel, Children Of The Promised Seed, The Church, They Are The Children Of God

There Is A Chosen Remnant Jew That Will Be Saved And Added To Israel The Church.

Romans 9:6-8KJV
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Sure, there will be a New heavens and earth; AFTER the Millennium, for the endless time of Eternity.
What is being discussed here, is what happens before this.
You need to understand that God does not like and will never forgive or redeem anyone who rejects His Son. Jesus is the ONLY way to God and to Salvation. Your belief makes two ways to God; ethnicity and by being born again in Jesus.

There is no scripture that says the Jews will be restored to being God's people. Zechariah 13 does not say this will happen; most will die and only a few will survive the refinement by fire. Just a remnant, as Romans 9:27 tells us.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

You ignore the many OT prophecies that describe Jesus as King over the world.
He doesn't destroy the earth, He rules and reigns over it. For the thousand years, as Revelation 20 says in 6 verses. It will be the Sabbath Millennium of the 7000 years Plan of God for mankind.

I concur with your estimate. There will indeed be a 1000 year reign of Jesus.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation.

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ!

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

It is what the Bible says will happen. Confirmed by Jesus' prophecy in Luke 13:32, where He will work for two 'days', then if the third 'day', He will receive His reward of reigning for the final Millennium. [Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 inform us that a 1000 earth years is as one day to the Lord, in heaven.]

Those who like to believe and preach another theory, do so because they have another agenda to promote. They have the weird notion that it is the Millennium now, despite Jesus not yet having Returned in His glory; visible to all.
Prophecies like Zechariah 14:16-21 prove there will be a time after Jesus Returns, Zechariah 14:3, when the nations will worship the King; the Lord of hosts, in Jerusalem.

Zechariah 14 is the Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, The (New Creation)

Zechariah 14

Verse 1.) The day of the Lord is coming, same event seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, the earth is DISSOlVED by fire

Verses 2-3.) The battle of Armageddon, all nations are gathered

Verse 4.) The second coming, as the spiritual consumes this physical world by fire

Verses 6-7.) Eternal light, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

Verse 8.) The eternal river of life, Rev 22:1-5

Verse 9-11.) The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, being revealed, the new Creation, the plain is lifted up.

Verse 12.) The Lord's last day fire in judgement, men are consumed, tongues, eyes, flesh, as they stand upon their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zechariah 14 is a sequence of Prophecy, of the yet to happen; end times.

Zechariah 14:1-2 describe the conquest of God's people by the Anti-Christ. 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns. Daniel 7:25, Daniel 11:30-45, Revelation 13:5-8

Zechariah 14:4-5 is the glorious Return and Armageddon. Revelation 19:11-21

Zechariah 14:6-21 is the Millennium period. Isaiah 12:1-6, Revelation 20:1-10

Zech 14 does not mention the Eternal state. Daniel 12:1-3, Revelation 21-22

Zechariah 14:1 is the day of the Lord, the very same day of the Lord seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13, when the earth is (Dissolved) by the Lord's fire

Zechariah 14:8 shows the river of life present, the eternal kingdom.

Zechariah 14:1KJV
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Men Are Consumed By The Lord's Fire In Judgement.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The Eternal River Of Life, In The Eternal Kingdom

Zechariah 14:8KJV
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Before the Messiah was born as a man the sages searched scripture to find our exactly how this would happen and decided they knew exactly, step by step how the lord would do that. They were wrong about what scripture said. They were to have faith is that it would be done, but they were adding to scripture when they decided the steps God would take to do it.

That is what is happening today as we read about the end times and Christ's return. We are told to expect it and to have faith in God for how He will, step by step, do it.

I never thought of it that way but I think you are making a very good point

How you get that from what is Written, is known only by yourself.
Obviously Zech 14:1-2 does not refer to the Return of Jesus, as that comes in verse 3.

Your idea that the earth will be 'dissolved by fire', is plainly wrong, as the rest of chapter 14 describes earthly scenes and events.

The church is the whole of the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The covenant people, the body of Christ is gathered / is to be gathered from all tribes, tongues and nations - including Arabs, Jews, Germans, Spaniards, Africans, Indians, Khoi-San, Chinese, Japanese, mixed-race peoples - which we all are, etc.).

The covenant people, the body of Christ are the physical descendants and adopted children (like Ruth) of Jacob, who accepts Yeshua ha'Mashiach / Jesus the Messiah, as atonement offering for their sins, and as their King, and walk in his Torah ways, as God commanded:

Matthew 15 (ESV)

24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

To show how adoption into the covenant people, the body of Christ, has occurred, we consider the story of the Moabite Ruth: She became the great-grandmother of King David, from whom Yeshua ha'Mashiach our Saviour and King, descended. During Assyrian captivity, the 10 tribes of Israel were scattered among the nations, largely never to return, with a collective amnesia of their Torah origins. During the Babylonian captivity and subsequent Roman deportations from Judea, some Torah walking Jews from Judea as the collective ancestors of the tribes of Judah / Benjamin / Levi, has partially returned to the whole of the ancient southern/northern kingdom land of Israel.


1 John 2 (ESV)

4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

Therefor any person in the body of Christ, has been found, as belonging to the former lost sheep of the house of Israel. Beware however that calling yourself born-again Christian (Christ = Messiah, Christian = follower of Messiah), and do not "walk in the same way in which he walked" is "a liar, and the truth is not in him," as Yeshua ha'Mashiach walked in the way of Torah.