Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Galatians 4:5-7. Paul, while speaking in context of adoption, said they were already sons. You can't say that He's referring to the New birth to the exclusion of adoption, because he's talking specifically about adoption.
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let's go slow again . We .....become .....sons ......through ......the ......new ....birth . Stop ....thinking ......Western.....American.....' adoption '
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Yes thats called post hoc rationalization.
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The first time I read Ephesians 1:4, I knew enough grammar to be able to identify a Subject, a verb, and a direct object. It's just something you have to learn when you learn to read with understanding. So what is the subject, verb, and direct object of "God chose us."
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
You still don't understand the "already, not yet" aspects of many of God's works.

The kingdom of God is already here, yet it is also coming.

We are already sanctified, but we are being sanctified.

we already have eternal life, but our body is still unredeemed.

We are already redeemed, but our body is not yet redeemed.
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I get the post hoc rationalization of the ' already not yet ' clause .
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
let's go slow again . We .....become .....sons ......through ......the ......new ....birth . Stop ....thinking ......Western.....American.....' adoption '
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You are ripping Galatians 4:5 out of context and seperating it, severing it from verse 4. Severed like a bloody, disembodied limb by you.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
The first time I read Ephesians 1:4, I knew enough grammar to be able to identify a Subject, a verb, and a direct object. It's just something you have to learn when you learn to read with understanding. So what is the subject, verb, and direct object of "God chose us."
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You would also read ' in him ' . As basic as it can be to explain. When are you in Him ?
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
I get the post hoc rationalization of the ' already not yet ' clause .
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Well you have one passage that says we are already adopted, Galatians 4:4-5 and another that says there is a future aspect. That is already, not yet. Have you passed from death to life? Has your body?
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
You are ripping Galatians 4:5 out of context and seperating it, severing it from verse 4. Severed like a bloody, disembodied limb by you.
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Hey I'm not the one desperate to have a verse that implies we were chosen to be saved before we existed . So think clearly on this.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Well you have one passage that says we are already adopted, Galatians 4:4-5 and another that says there is a future aspect. That is already, not yet. Have you passed from death to life? Has your body?
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If we have this already :
Romans 8.23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Then you should have no problems walking through walls . If you can demonstrate that ,then I.ll concede.
Galations is confirming this part " which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, "
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
You would also read ' in him ' . As basic as it can be to explain. When are you in Him ?
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We are in Christ when we believe. But that is not when we are chosen. We are chosen before the foundation of the world. The sphere of election is in Christ. In other words, God chose those who will be in Christ. That is what foreknowledge means. God saw who would be in Christ and chose them and predestined them to be sons, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

You cannot remove the words "before the foundation of the world" from the text, as much as you seem to want to.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Hey I'm not the one desperate to have a verse that implies we were chosen to be saved before we existed . So think clearly on this.
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What were we chosen to before the foundation of the world, then?
 
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ForestGreenCook

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throughfaith said:
God is pleased to save those that believe, not cause belief in those he saves. (1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 10:9-10)

Free gift unto justification of life to all men must be received. It’s not “universalism” unless irresistible grace supplants the biblical requirement to receive. (Rom. 5:11-18; Jn. 1:12; 1 Cor. 15:1-4)

“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)
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Yes, God has saved those who believe in spiritual things. That excludes the natural man, before he has been regenerated, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them too be foolishness.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
If we have this already :
Romans 8.23
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Then you should have no problems walking through walls . If you can demonstrate that ,then I.ll concede.
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Do you have eternal life as a present possession? If you have eternal life, you should never die, right?

YES, we have eternal life as a present possession, but our body is not yet eternal. Already, not yet
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
If you have passed from death unto life already, you should be able to jump out of an airplane without a parachute and not be harmed. Can you?
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That's a bad example as we're taking about our physical bodies . Just like Jesus s new body after the resurrection. Major difference. The whole of creation is waiting for the manifestation' Where it will be said " now thats a son of God "
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
That's a bad example as we're taking about our physical bodies . Just like Jesus s new body after the resurrection. Major difference. The whole of creation is waiting for the manifestation' Where it will be said " now thats a son of God "
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Yes. In adoption, there is a stage where you are adopted and there is a later stage where your adoption is publicly declared. How hard is that to understand? That's why it's called the manifestation of the children of God. Look up the meaning of manifestation
 
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John146

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OIC1965 said:
But you have been adopted Galatians 4:4-7
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I am a son but I have not received the adoption.

Also, God never knew me as a son before I trusted in Christ. After ye are known of God...

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
 
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OIC1965

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John146 said:
I am a son but I have not received the adoption.

Also, God never knew me as a son before I trusted in Christ. After ye are known of God...

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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YOU are still confusing the words "know" and "foreknow" as if they are the same word.
 
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OIC1965

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John146 said:
I am a son but I have not received the adoption.

Also, God never knew me as a son before I trusted in Christ. After ye are known of God...

9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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Galatians 4:4But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." 7So you are no longer a slave, but God's child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.

CLEARLY talking about sonship through adoption. You have to be in willful denial to not see this.
 
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John146

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OIC1965 said:
Well you have one passage that says we are already adopted, Galatians 4:4-5 and another that says there is a future aspect. That is already, not yet. Have you passed from death to life? Has your body?
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The Galatians passage does not contain the word adoption.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Yes. In adoption, there is a stage where you are adopted and there is a later stage where your adoption is publicly declared. How hard is that to understand? That's why it's called the manifestation of the children of God. Look up the meaning of manifestation
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Because Jesus never had his new body given in instalments. NEITHER do we . We have the Spirt as the earnest until then. We are predestined to it . Thats it . simple. Anything else is post hoc rationalization to accommodate other doctrines . Ephesians 1 .4 becomes the calvinistic thinkers go to proof text . With that they have to have ' Adoption ' at conversion. Thats why you need ' adoption ' at conversion.
 
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