The Pre-Trib Rapture - a PRIZE for only a few

The Pre-trib rapture has always been a mystery that was first revealed by the Apostle Paul, so vs51 spell out that word.

No such thing as a (Pre-Trib) rapture, a false teaching of John N. Darby and C.I. Scofield (Dispensationalism)

Here's what the Bible actually says about the rapture and when it happens:

15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

1. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. The rapture

29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:29-31

1. After the tribulation
2. The return of Christ, the trumpet sounds
3. The rapture

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:52

1. The last trumpet sounds
2. The resurrection of the dead
3. We shall be changed
4. All in the twinkling of an eye

11 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

Revelation 11:15

1. Final trumpet, Christ reigns forever
2. Kingdom of the world becomes the Lord's kingdom

In conclusion: after the great tribulation Christ returns at the last (seventh and final) trumpet, the dead are resurrected, and believers are changed and raptured, all in the twinkling of an eye. They aren't separate events, they happen together.

The (Saints) that are (Overcome) in Revelation 13:7 below, they are the (Two Witnesses) seen Revelation 11:3-8 below that will be (Overcome) and killed, when they have finished their work on earth, as the final days/hours of earth's existence unfold.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 11:3-8KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

I Agree 200%, Great Post Of Truth!

Dispensationalism wants to take a single verse and try desperately to twist it, creating a false teaching.

You present the verses in 1 Thess 4:15-17 the #1 go to verse for those in Dispensationalism in their false claim of a (Pre-Trib) Rapture.

As you stated, we see the return of Jesus Christ, the resurrection of the believers.

You show the timing of Jesus Christ return in Matthew 24:29-31 as being (After The Tribulation)

You could add that the resurrection seen is on (The Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught, John 6:39-40, & 11:23-24

So simple a first grade kid could figure it out, and they continue with the false teaching.

Part I

This group is the great tribulation saints and not the church.

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"Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason,
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John was told previously to write letters to the seven churches. Then he was introduced to this new group of whom he was asked who they are? John basically says, I don't know. You are the one who knows. The very fact that the elder is asking John this question and that John did not recognize them, demonstrates that they are not the church.

These are Gentiles who will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. This is the same group whom the beast is given power to make war against and conquer for 42 months, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

First of all, it is important to understand that the woman of Rev.12 and the woman of Rev.17 are figuratively representing two different women

The woman of Rev.12 = Pursued by the dragon

The woman of Rev.17 = Rides the beast (utilizes the beasts authority to establish her religious authority supreme

The woman of Rev.12 is symbolically clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. The sun, moon and stars are the same symbols used in Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9-10.

Sun = Jacob

Moon = Wife/wives

Stars = twelve tribes of Israel

The woman clothed with the sun, moon and stars is therefore symbolic representing the nation Israel.

(Continued)

Typical response from the pre-trib crowd is that the return of Christ and rapture are separate events.

This idea that there is a bonus prize pre-trib rapture for a select few is also no where to be found in the Bible as far as I can tell.

The Bible is clear that the last trumpet is when the dead are raised, Christ returns and the living are raptured.

Part II

The word "ekklesia" translated "church" is used 19 times through Revelation chapters 1 thru 3. After that the word is never used during the narrative of God's wrath. The word "hagios" translated "Saints" is used 13 times and is referring to the great tribulation saints introduced in chapter 7.

Revelation 4:1 is a prophetic allusion to where the church is caught up which is why the church is no longer mentioned during the time of God's wrath.

The underlying principle here, is that Christ took upon himself God's wrath that all believers deserve, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and which is why we will be removed from the earth prior to the first seal being opened, which initiates God's wrath.

* The woman you saw is that great city who rules over the kings of the earth

At the time that the angel was showing these things to John, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth

* The seven heads are seven hill upon which the woman sits

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills

* The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls.

Purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals


View attachment 221519


God's clues are pointing us the Rome and her pagan religious system.



Prior to the first being opened which initiates God's wrath, the Lord will appear and call up the dead first. Immediately after that, those believers who are still alive will be changed immortal and glorified and caught up with them. At that point the entire church will be in one place at one time, where the Lord will take the whole group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us, as promised in John 14:1-3



It is not a reward, but a legal precedent. Since Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on behalf of every believer, then His wrath no longer rests upon us and we therefore must be removed.

I word 'anastasis' is derived from aná, "up, again" and hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again") and is used 42 times not once.

Also, it is not a resurrection for all men, but only the faithful in Christ, the church. The word 'harpazo' translated 'caught up' is defined as 'to snatch up, caught up, force suddenly exercised. It is a promise to all who are having faith and looking forward to His appearing, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.

Thought this is written to the Thessalonian church, the Lord's promise is for all church throughout the entire church period. It is the same as with the letters to the seven churches. Any commendations or rebukes are meant for each believer, throughout the entire church period, to analyze himself and if the shoe fits, then apply it and repent.

The 'hour of trial' is another moniker for the 'the Day of the Lord,' which is the time of God's wrath. They are neither an hour nor a day in length, but represent that last seven years. Every believer having faith will be kept out of that hour of trial. Those who will have gone back into the world and will be willfully living according to the sinful nature, will be those figurative virgins with no extra oil, i.e. not watching or prepared when the Lord appears. The believer who is keeping the patient endurance of Jesus, is referring to the faithful.

* Church is gathered (John 14:1-3, I Cor.15:51-53, I Thess.4:16-17)

* Antichrist is revealed at the opening of the first seal as the rider on the white horse (Rev.6:1)

* 144,000 sealed with the seal of God in their foreheads (Rev.7:1-6)

* Seals, trumpets and bowl judgments continue throughout the entire seven years (chapters 6 thru 16)

* Antichrist/beast causes the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination which causes the desolation (Dan.9:27, Matt.24:15-22)

* Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, with His bride/church following Him out of heaven riding on white horses (Rev.19:11-15)

* Beast and false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:20)

* Satan is seized and thrown into the Abyss and sealed over him for a thousand years (Rev.20:1-3)

* Great tribulation saints who died are resurrected (Rev.20:4-6)

* Millennial kingdom

* Satan released from the Abyss at the end of the thousand years (Rev.20:7-10)

* Satan cast into the Lake of fire (Rev.20:10)

* Great white throne judgment (Rev.20:11-15)

* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem

* Eternity ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

It is not a reward, but a legal precedent. Since Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on behalf of every believer, then His wrath no longer rests upon us and we therefore must be removed.

No one with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be be in the Tribulation . It will be a time of trial for Israel not the Church .
the Scripture says that the Antichrist given authority—that’s by Satan—to make war against the saints. Now, those are the tribulation saints who come to Christ during the Great Tribulation, because the gospel will be preached—and to overcome them. And anyone who does not bow down and worship his image is killed. Well, that would be the entire church. Jesus said the gates of hell could not prevail against the church. The church is the bride of Christ. He is not going to leave us to the tender mercies of Antichrist to wipe us all out. So that’s another reason why we must be removed.

The bride is the church, those who will be resurrected and those who will be alive, changed and caught up.

1st Corinthians 51-53 speaks of a living man being changed from corruption to incorruption. Rapture is not mentioned

Have you noticed that not one of the concepts you promote has even a verse attached, never mind the two you need to establish anything. Have you also noticed that Revelation 17 was never mentioned in the OP. C'mon bro. Let's discuss the eight scriptures in the OP.

Go well bro.

The word "appointed" does not mean "guaranteed". The navy pilot is "appointed". Some time later he flies drunk. He is cashiered and may no longer fly. What is with the "appointment"? Why did it not save him?

And I think the most interesting observation of all is that you did not enter into any one of my eight arguments. If they stand, the case is made. Whether "saints" or "tribulation saints", they pass through the Great Tribulation, We both agree that they were not appointed to it. What happened?

For me if I go back through the OT and NT and what God has always done for His own I don't see pre-trib as a prize or reward. Hes the one that said that He was going back to His Fathers house to make us a place and that He would come back and receive us unto Him self so where He is we will be. He said again where I go you know.

Now the problem is if there is no pre trib when are we ever with Him where He is? Where is He? Seated at the right hand of the Father. To know that Lot had to be gone..as long as you are here I can do nothing..God (angel) said. And we know no believer will ever see His wrath and we know Gods wrath is hitting the whole earth and we know there is no place to hide this time.

It would seem some believe they must suffer something to prove they are worthy.. I don't know. How happy and blessed are ALL the believers that DIED just before the great tribulation right?

The fact the Church after Chapter 3 is no longer talked about.. odd. Oh "Who locks the Bridegroom out? The Bride of Laodicea!" A this is not written. Rev 3:20 "if anyone hears my voice". Its directed at "anyone" not Laodicea. No one was spit out of His mouth.. He loves them and asked them to repent. Not sure why we would run with the negitive when they could have repented got right with God and are hot. As if they were stuck in time. As if this Church just HAS to be us the Church today.

He is coming.. there is not PRE verse no MID verse no POST verse. So..I watch and am ready now. I will never miss Him. I will never see my Fathers wrath. And Satan will never have power over me as he does in the great tribulation. I have all authority over the enemy. That will never change. That does not get talked about.. odd

The Pre-trib rapture has always been a mystery that was first revealed by the Apostle Paul, so vs51 spell out that word.