Are the words of Jesus not for Christians?

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L

lenna

Guest
#181
#181
Nehemiah6 said:
This is more due to Hyper-Dispensationalism which vainly tries to split the Church between a Jewish Church and a Gentile Church. Of course, that is all nonsense.
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it is beyond tiresome and nonsensical of course as you say
 
L

lenna

Guest
#182
#182
Forcemyhand said:
I 'm not studied on the "Jesus seminar" but I do know many of the main stream teachings are not based in the word.

As far as what is scripture or to be believed there are 1,000 of altered manuscripts, most just minor differences but some have whole pverses added or removed. I believe it is a point of spirit led study if truth is to be found. With that said it is a more intermediate study and not all people are there yet. As far as taking some and leaving some I think that confirming at least validity is in order before things are fully accepted, if things can be proven true than that is enough to start on and as one gains knowledge they will naturally learn more and more, making sense of the fine details that were misunderstood in the past.

With that said it is Yahshua/Jesus words above all

John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”


John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
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right

I only used the 'Jesus Seminar' as a starting point. my actual concern is regarding what some are teaching today...the gospels, book of Acts and James, are not for Gentile believers.

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.

exactly
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#183
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#183
lenna said:
James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. good thing to do
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Why would a believer, a Christian, need to be told this? If the "twelve tribes" represent Jewish believers, haven't they already received the word and their souls saved? Why would James tell them this?

The term "twelve tribes" all throughout Scripture is a reference the whole nation of Israel and never a called out group from that nation. To make the reference in James to mean Jewish Christians would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I don't want to violate God's word in this manner. I allow the Scripture to define itself.

Can you post another "twelve tribe" reference that designates this term to Christians? Thanks.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#184
#184
Guojing said:
Romans 5:12-19 made it pretty clear to me, under the grace dispensation that salvation cannot be lost.

We are condemned because of Adam's disobedience, we are righteous because we accept Christ obedience on the cross.
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whatever at this point. you don't answer to me.

you don't have to explain salvation to us; what you do need to explain is what you do with Jesus words...to Him

I guess ignore them cause they are difficult?
 
L

lenna

Guest
#185
#185
John146 said:
Why would a believer, a Christian, need to be told this? If the "twelve tribes" represent Jewish believers, haven't they already received the word and their souls saved? Why would James tell them this?

The term "twelve tribes" all throughout Scripture is a reference the whole nation of Israel and never a called out group from that nation. To make the reference in James to mean Jewish Christians would contradict every other usage in Scripture. I don't want to violate God's word in this manner. I allow the Scripture to define itself.

Can you post another "twelve tribe" reference that designates this term to Christians? Thanks.
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well apparently they were similar to believers today

just having a hard time letting go of their sin and sinful habits

listen Johnny, get off your merry go round. it's making you dizzy ;) :giggle:
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#186
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#186
lenna said:
Jesus said He is the way, the truth and the life and He said that IN THE GOSPELS

so if the gospels are only for the Jews, then it seems we are left out ... according to you of course

get some comprehension already. it's not like we have not tried to open your eyes here and in many other threads
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Yes, He said this in the gospels. What does it mean? What's the way? I thought it was through His death, burial and resurrection. Do you believe otherwise? Jesus said I will build my Church...future...
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#187
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#187
lenna said:
whatever at this point. you don't answer to me.

you don't have to explain salvation to us; what you do need to explain is what you do with Jesus words...to Him

I guess ignore them cause they are difficult?
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Paul's letters from Romans to Philemon are precisely Jesus words to us in the Body of Christ. (Acts 22:21, Romans 2:16)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#188
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#188
Guojing said:
Paul's letters from Romans to Philemon are precisely Jesus words to us in the Body of Christ. (Romans 2:16)
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It's funny that people think that we should obey the gospels, but at the same time, they do realize not all of it needs to be obeyed. Only the teachings they agree with, they obey.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#189
Jan 12, 2019
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#189
John146 said:
It's funny that people think that we should obey the gospels, but at the same time, they do realize not all of it needs to be obeyed. Only the teachings they agree with, they obey.
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Many churches and their pastors love to preach from the 4 Gospels, because that is where most of the stories are.

There are hardly any of such stories in Romans to Philemon.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#190
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#190
lenna said:
well apparently they were similar to believers today

just having a hard time letting go of their sin and sinful habits

listen Johnny, get off your merry go round. it's making you dizzy ;):giggle:
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1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

I'm waiting for another reference to prove the term "twelve tribes" is a phrase for Jewish believers and not the whole nation of Israel coming from the twelve tribes.

Any takers? It's used dozens of times in Scripture. Surely, there is at least one other...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#191
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,685
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#191
Guojing said:
Many churches and their pastors love to preach from the 4 Gospels, because that is where most of the stories are.

There are hardly any of such stories in Romans to Philemon.
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Yes, and they use them to "convict" their congregation to live in the manner of a Jew according to the law including tithing.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#192
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
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#192
John146 said:
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

I'm waiting for another reference to prove the term "twelve tribes" is a phrase for Jewish believers and not the whole nation of Israel coming from the twelve tribes.

Any takers? It's used dozens of times in Scripture. Surely, there is at least one other...
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As if the red letters are more inspired than the black. That's the dangers of red letters in the Bible.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#193
#193
John146 said:
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

I'm waiting for another reference to prove the term "twelve tribes" is a phrase for Jewish believers and not the whole nation of Israel coming from the twelve tribes.

Any takers? It's used dozens of times in Scripture. Surely, there is at least one other...
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it does not matter what anyone is going to say to you. you believe in a false presentation. but here goes for the sake of those who are not sure:


1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,

To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:

Greetings.

Trials and Temptations
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

now who is the CHRISTIAN James speaking to when he refers to brothers and sisters? OTHER CHRISTIANS. he speaks of facing trials...well Jesus said we would face trials and those trials refine our faith (as Paul states)

BUT John here, does not believe the book of James is for Christians of any sort...whether Jews or Gentiles...so he cannot seem to see what most of us see, that James is not writing to unbelievers, but members of his own race, JEWISH CONVERTS, but his words reach out to us through the centuries and have been proven true and will be proven true.

9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position.

and in verse 9 above of chapter one, James calls the people to whom he is writing BELIEVERS..if they are believers is does not matter if they are flamingos, Jews or Gentiles as Paul states we are all one...one how? IN CHRIST

so John here, has no authority to cut up the body of Christ and state James is only for Jews
 
L

lenna

Guest
#194
#194
John146 said:
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

I'm waiting for another reference to prove the term "twelve tribes" is a phrase for Jewish believers and not the whole nation of Israel coming from the twelve tribes.

Any takers? It's used dozens of times in Scripture. Surely, there is at least one other...
Click to expand...
since James refers to brothers and sisters in Christ, yes in Christ since he also calls them believers, I do not believe you are waiting for anything except continued exchanges with people who have way too much patience with you

your behavior at this point is nothing short of trollish

as such, you go back on ignore and I would be nothing short of rather happy if everyone else also ignored you

it would clean up the thread you have gnawed at
 
L

lenna

Guest
#195
#195
I just wonder why someone who thinks certain parts of the Bible are not for believers today would work so hard at trying to convince others of their convictions?

making converts?

anyway, I done with it and fine if the thread continues, but not with trollish behavior
 
L

lenna

Guest
#196
#196
Guojing said:
Paul's letters from Romans to Philemon are precisely Jesus words to us in the Body of Christ. (Acts 22:21, Romans 2:16)
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and Jesus words are also to us

you don't have to agree, but what parts of His promises would you like to disagree with?

maybe this one?

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, John 11:25

perhaps He meant only that woman and she alone is saved?

you don't see what you are doing
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#197
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,685
113
#197
lenna said:
since James refers to brothers and sisters in Christ, yes in Christ since he also calls them believers, I do not believe you are waiting for anything except continued exchanges with people who have way too much patience with you

your behavior at this point is nothing short of trollish

as such, you go back on ignore and I would be nothing short of rather happy if everyone else also ignored you

it would clean up the thread you have gnawed at
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James is a Jew, and like Paul, he calls them brethren. Verse 9 actually says,

9 Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:

Again, can you post another biblical reference using the phrase "twelve tribes" as referring to Christians? There are dozens, surely one is a reference to Christians...Thanks.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#198
Jan 13, 2016
17,109
3,685
113
#198
lenna said:
and Jesus words are also to us

you don't have to agree, but what parts of His promises would you like to disagree with?

maybe this one?

Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, John 11:25

perhaps He meant only that woman and she alone is saved?

you don't see what you are doing
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The verse is obviously a prophecy concerning His resurrection. It would not be in effect until after it occurred. For instance, what He foretold in John 3. After the cross one could believe on Him to everlasting life. The Son of man must be lifted up first.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Forcemyhand

Forcemyhand

Member
#199
Sep 24, 2020
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#199
Guojing said:
So my question is, which you avoided answering, why didn’t Peter used those scriptures that you quoted, when the Jewish believers criticised him for going to the gentiles in acts 11?
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Because Yhshua/Jesus sent HIS DISCIPLES out to teach everyone at that point, Yahshua did not send unbelieving people to teach His message...

He sent His disciples...
 
Forcemyhand

Forcemyhand

Member
#200
Sep 24, 2020
96
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#200
lenna said:
right

I only used the 'Jesus Seminar' as a starting point. my actual concern is regarding what some are teaching today...the gospels, book of Acts and James, are not for Gentile believers.

John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.

exactly
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I think this is where, and this is my view, I think this is where people get caught up in labels and denominations and even choosing to follow their own heart/easy wide path. I know Im not perfect, far far from it, but I also know He is the way, and I don't care what someone heritage, social status, beliefs, etc, etc, etc, are I think all can gain from His words. Also I enjoyed the "exactly" So...

:) Exactly!
 
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