Chosen by God - A study in Election

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cv5

cv5

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#841
Nov 20, 2018
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#841
throughfaith said:
1¶Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

4Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD;

8But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

12Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they

17Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land,

21But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went

22¶Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel,
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, ( who ? gee I wonder !!! ) and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

So we should have all Calvinists being caused to walk in Gods statues and ordinances today in 2020 with there shiny new hearts they have been given . Context and Calvinism, never go together . Not one time , ever .
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My friend if you do not understand or believe that the New Birth brings us to obedience to the commands, orders of worship, and doctrine of the Lord Jesus Messiah, I am BEGGING you to hit the books.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#843
Feb 28, 2016
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#843
John146 said:
How the KJV bible really works...when a word or phrase is used for the first time in Scripture it’s usage will be clearly defined. This definition will hold true throughout scripture. This is called the first mention principle. Your Greek pastor probably doesn’t know this. I don’t need the Greek. I have the preserved words of God in the KJV.
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the Law of (first mention) goes back into early Judaism - this is nothing new...
since the NT was considered 'just LETTERS' before they were canonized - Paul was a Jewish RABBI,
and would have been very familiar with the Law of 'first mention' -
The Bible -
Hebrew
Greek
Latin
English -
along with MULTIPLE translations...
the King James is our favorite (translation), but certainly not our ONLY RESOURCE -
knowing and understanding Greek and Hebrew will certainly take us back to the ROOT of the original meaning...
one doesn't have to be a scholar - all one has to do is,
ACTS 17:11.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received The Word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. - and those scriptures had to BE the OT,
because there was no NT as yet...
we all need to take heed to the whole council of God, and if we find scriptures that seem to contradict one another,
then 'word-study' can often bring us to a clearer understanding...
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#844
Aug 4, 2020
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#844
cv5 said:
You're getting close to the ignore button buddy. I would hate to do that.
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cv5 said:
Okay. So here we go.

Old Testament: Righteous King Hezekiah and his reforms
2 Chr 30:6, 10-12
So the couriers went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the king and his officials, which read: “Children of Israel, return to the LORD, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, so that He may return to those of you who remain, who have escaped the grasp of the kings of Assyria.
10So the runners passed from city to city through the country of Ephraim and Manasseh, as far as Zebulun; but they laughed at them and mocked them. 11Nevertheless some from Asher, Manasseh, and Zebulun humbled themselves and came to Jerusalem. 12Also the hand of God was on Judah to give them singleness of heart to obey the command of the king and the leaders, at the word of the Lord.

New Testament:
Phil 2:13
For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

John 5:15
I am the vine; you are the branches. The one abiding in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit. For apart from Me you are able to do nothing.
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What do you believe the context of those verses are ? Clearly they are all different . ??
 
T

throughfaith

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#845
Aug 4, 2020
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#845
cv5 said:
You say that the order, source and sequence of salvation for Israel is different than for us gentiles.
And I say no way José. It works exactly the same for everybody everywhere all the time.
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For Israel its about ' the land ' . For Gentiles its not about ' the land '
Eze 36 is not about today . Its about the future occurance for Israel.
 
cv5

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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#846
throughfaith said:
What do you believe the context of those verses are ? Clearly they are all different . ??
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Lol. I would suggest that you look for the similarities!
 
cv5

cv5

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#847
Nov 20, 2018
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#847
throughfaith said:
For Israel its about ' the land ' . For Gentiles its not about ' the land '
Eze 36 is not about today . Its about the future occurance for Israel.
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A technicality. What it's "about", is God redeeming His people. And what I am pointing out is that the ways and means of redeeming His people are exactly the same.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#848
#848
cv5 said:
My question to you is:
Are you going to (or able to) put a new heart and a new Spirit in yourself by yourself of yourself, whereby and wherewith you should repent and be given the faith to believe?
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This is your strawman.. that we save ourselves

But Calvinism does actually teach "selection by irresistible grace" and if you accept Calvinism's election then you also agree with irresistible grace.. they are not separate, one needs the other.

Divine selection states that people need not hear the Gospel, they need not need to respond to what they have heard... opposite of scripture.

Divine selection also means the non-selected group is help accountable for a choice they never had!!

Why is it Calvinism does not want to face the logical conclusions of their errors?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#849
Aug 4, 2020
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#849
cv5 said:
You say that the order, source and sequence of salvation for Israel is different than for us gentiles.
And I say no way José. It works exactly the same for everybody everywhere all the time.
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cv5 said:
Lol. I would suggest that you look for the similarities!
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That's not how we understand the bible . Each book has a Diffetent central theme, focus , context , message, . The Gospel of John is not ' similar to the letter of philippians for example . Different Authors , Different audience, different focus , time. One is before the major event of the death , burial and resurrection, the giving of the Holy Spirit , Paul's conversion , the apostle to the Gentiles ect ect . Things different are not the same .
 
T

throughfaith

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#850
cv5 said:
A technicality. What it's "about", is God redeeming His people. And what I am pointing out is that the ways and means of redeeming His people are exactly the same.
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No one was redeemed until the death burial and resurrection.
 
T

throughfaith

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#851
Aug 4, 2020
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#851
cv5 said:
A technicality. What it's "about", is God redeeming His people. And what I am pointing out is that the ways and means of redeeming His people are exactly the same.
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Heavy generalisation. God told Noah to build an Ark , he was saved by faith . But He did not follow Romans 10.9 .
 
cv5

cv5

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#852
EleventhHour said:
This is your strawman.. that we save ourselves

But Calvinism does actually teach "selection by irresistible grace" and if you accept Calvinism's election then you also agree with irresistible grace.. they are not separate, one needs the other.

Divine selection states that people need not hear the Gospel, they need not need to respond to what they have heard... opposite of scripture.

Divine selection also means the non-selected group is help accountable for a choice they never had!!

Why is it Calvinism does not want to face the logical conclusions of their errors?
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I am not a Calvinist. Unfortunately I found your response less than satisfactory so I'm still left here hanging with that question. But I appreciate your efforts.
 
T

throughfaith

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#855
Aug 4, 2020
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#855
cv5 said:
A technicality. What it's "about", is God redeeming His people. And what I am pointing out is that the ways and means of redeeming His people are exactly the same.
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"
cv5 said:
I am not a Calvinist. Unfortunately I found your response less than satisfactory so I'm still left here hanging with that question. But I appreciate your efforts.
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Chokes on coffee !! hang on ,how are you not a Calvinist ?
 
cv5

cv5

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#857
Nov 20, 2018
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#857
throughfaith said:
Heavy generalisation. God told Noah to build an Ark , he was saved by faith . But He did not follow Romans 10.9 .
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I would reply with the question: Was Noah elect, chosen, and consequently filled with the Holy Spirit PREVIOUS to him fulfilling his mandate that God set forth for him to accomplish?

I mean did Noah take it upon himself to build the Ark and save all flesh? And then God gave him a boost? Or did God Himself initiate this endeavor and then empower those individuals to whom the task was committed?
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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oldethennew said:
knowing and understanding Greek and Hebrew will certainly take us back to the ROOT of the original meaning...
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Which the kjv has already provided in the English language. But that's another thread.
 
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