Chosen by God - A study in Election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#861
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#861
Iconoclast said:
Ezk 36 is for everyone.
Click to expand...
And there is the Problem with poor bible teaching today . Liberal theol
Iconoclast said:
Ezk 36 is for everyone.
Click to expand...
And there is the cause of your failure to handle the word of God .
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
I guess we all have the Holy Spirit in the womb also ?
" every verse is for me " . Calvinism is a ' me ' centred theology .
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of John Calvin
5Of the tribe of Paul washer were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
John Piper were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of John MacArthur were sealed twelve thousand.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#862
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,622
113
#862
throughfaith said:
And there is the Problem with poor bible teaching today . Liberal theol
And there is the cause of your failure to handle the word of God .
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
I guess we all have the Holy Spirit in the womb also ?
" every verse is for me " . Calvinism is a ' me ' centred theology .
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of John Calvin
5Of the tribe of Paul washer were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
John Piper were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of John MacArthur were sealed twelve thousand.
Click to expand...
First of all Ezekiel 36 is unquestionably for everyone. Certainly.

But for you to insinuate that prayerful study of Ezekiel 36 makes one a loose, heedless libertine is just beyond the pale.

I would suggest that an apology is in order!
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#864
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#864
cv5 said:
I would reply with the question: Was Noah elect, chosen, and consequently filled with the Holy Spirit PREVIOUS to him fulfilling his mandate that God set forth for him to accomplish?

I mean did Noah take it upon himself to build the Ark and save all flesh? And then God gave him a boost? Or did God Himself initiate this endeavor and then empower those individuals to whom the task was committed?
Click to expand...
Trying to import ' determinism ' into everything will drive your thinking . What does the text say about Noah . Don't add to what is not there .
Hebrews 11 .
7¶By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
What your engaging is called deductive reasoning . Calvinsm is built on syllogism ( read ' the faith of God's Elect , by John F Parkinson ,who's done a great study on this) and deductive reasoning . Which is faulty for a proper understanding of the bible . Deductive reasoning sees one thing happening in the bible and concludes God always does this in all times and the same way . The Lydia narrative is a great example of this . A non biblical example would be : a boy aged 8 is seen doing 20 back flips in a row . Therfore all 8 year old boys can do 20 back flips in a row. The reality is ,this one kid is probably trained for years to do this as a gymnast.
 
Iconoclast

Iconoclast

Senior Member
#866
May 27, 2017
1,033
263
83
usa
christianforumsuncensored.createaforum.com
#866
throughfaith said:
And there is the Problem with poor bible teaching today . Liberal theol
And there is the cause of your failure to handle the word of God .
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
I guess we all have the Holy Spirit in the womb also ?
" every verse is for me " . Calvinism is a ' me ' centred theology .
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of John Calvin
5Of the tribe of Paul washer were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
John Piper were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of John MacArthur were sealed twelve thousand.
Click to expand...
🤡🤡🤡🤡 you do not get redemptive history or God's eternal purpose revealed to the Church .
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#867
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#867
throughfaith said:
Trying to import ' determinism ' into everything will drive your thinking . What does the text say about Noah . Don't add to what is not there .
Hebrews 11 .
7¶By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
What your engaging is called deductive reasoning . Calvinsm is built on syllogism ( read ' the faith of God's Elect , by John F Parkinson ,who's done a great study on this) and deductive reasoning . Which is faulty for a proper understanding of the bible . Deductive reasoning sees one thing happening in the bible and concludes God always does this in all times and the same way . The Lydia narrative is a great example of this . A non biblical example would be : a boy aged 8 is seen doing 20 back flips in a row . Therfore all 8 year old boys can do 20 back flips in a row. The reality is ,this one kid is probably trained for years to do this as a gymnast.
Click to expand...
And NOAH had a CHOICE to make....to build or not to build.....

No matter how these clowns try to get around free will and choice, the bible DRIPS WITH IT FROM FRONT TO BACK.....

EVEN THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD had to disrob his glory, take flesh, be tempted, tried, tested and CHOOSE!

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#868
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#868
cv5 said:
First of all Ezekiel 36 is unquestionably for everyone. Certainly.

But for you to insinuate that prayerful study of Ezekiel 36 makes one a loose, heedless libertine is just beyond the pale.

I would suggest that an apology is in order!
Click to expand...
Enough of the
cv5 said:
First of all Ezekiel 36 is unquestionably for everyone. Certainly.

But for you to insinuate that prayerful study of Ezekiel 36 makes one a loose, heedless libertine is just beyond the pale.

I would suggest that an apology is in order!
Click to expand...
Does it say its for everyone? Does it say gentiles ? Does it say anything about the cross ? faith ? the resurrection? . I guess we can ' spiritualise leviticus also and make that about gentiles in 2020 .

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Should this really mean .
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of those Elected to be saved ,at any time .?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#869
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#869
dcontroversal said:
And NOAH had a CHOICE to make....to build or not to build.....

No matter how these clowns try to get around free will and choice, the bible DRIPS WITH IT FROM FRONT TO BACK.....

EVEN THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD had to disrob his glory, take flesh, be tempted, tried, tested and CHOOSE!

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Click to expand...
There is no Gospel in Calvinism . No good news to tell . Jesus is just an ' aside ' to the ' Election ' .
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#871
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,622
113
#871
throughfaith said:
Trying to import ' determinism ' into everything will drive your thinking . What does the text say about Noah . Don't add to what is not there .
Hebrews 11 .
7¶By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
What your engaging is called deductive reasoning . Calvinsm is built on syllogism ( read ' the faith of God's Elect , by John F Parkinson ,who's done a great study on this) and deductive reasoning . Which is faulty for a proper understanding of the bible . Deductive reasoning sees one thing happening in the bible and concludes God always does this in all times and the same way . The Lydia narrative is a great example of this . A non biblical example would be : a boy aged 8 is seen doing 20 back flips in a row . Therfore all 8 year old boys can do 20 back flips in a row. The reality is ,this one kid is probably trained for years to do this as a gymnast.
Click to expand...
My point is that the Bible clearly indicates that God provides the faith, including the faith that Noah possessed. Furthermore only those who have ears to hear will heed Gods warning.....because they are elect sheep of course (John 10:27)!

Indeed we definitely participate with our will and our heart. The question of where the dividing line is between our will and Gods will no man knows. But make no mistake, when God is determined to do His will on the earth, He WILL transform hearts. No problemo. That's how God gets things done.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#872
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,622
113
#872
throughfaith said:
There is no Gospel in Calvinism . No good news to tell . Jesus is just an ' aside ' to the ' Election ' .
Click to expand...
Nonsense. Jesus is participating in the election the process itself, Himself, which the Bible makes clear (John 15:16). He is not a bystander and He is not a victim. HE IS CAPTAIN AND COMMANDER!
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#873
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,622
113
#873
throughfaith said:
Enough of the
Does it say its for everyone? Does it say gentiles ? Does it say anything about the cross ? faith ? the resurrection? . I guess we can ' spiritualise leviticus also and make that about gentiles in 2020 .

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Should this really mean .
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of those Elected to be saved ,at any time .?
Click to expand...
I challenge you to stand up in front of your congregation, rip Ezekiel 36 out of your Bible, and throw it in the trashcan, telling everyone that it is useless and only a clueless liberal would dare touch it. Go ahead I dare you.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#874
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#874
cv5 said:
My point is that the Bible clearly indicates that God provides the faith, including the faith that Noah possessed. Furthermore only those who have ears to hear will heed Gods warning.....because they are elect sheep of course (John 10:27)!

Indeed we definitely participate with our will and our heart. The question of where the dividing line is between our will and Gods will no man knows. But make no mistake, when God is determined to do His will on the earth, He WILL transform hearts. No problemo. That's how God gets things done.
Click to expand...
Then you need to have a verse that says God causes belief in those he saves .
It certainly would change these verses .
4¶By Faith which God cased to happen Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5¶By faith Caused by God Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.( God is pleased at his own doing )
cv5 said:
My point is that the Bible clearly indicates that God provides the faith, including the faith that Noah possessed. Furthermore only those who have ears to hear will heed Gods warning.....because they are elect sheep of course (John 10:27)!

Indeed we definitely participate with our will and our heart. The question of where the dividing line is between our will and Gods will no man knows. But make no mistake, when God is determined to do His will on the earth, He WILL transform hearts. No problemo. That's how God gets things done.
Click to expand...
Your problem is you cannot find those verses that mean what you say . All Calvinsm does is find verses that are forced to fit the system . calvinsm teaches a anti Gospel message . Calvinsm is helping Satan blinding people even further from the Gospel .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#875
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#875
cv5 said:
I challenge you to stand up in front of your congregation, rip Ezekiel 36 out of your Bible, and throw it in the trashcan, telling everyone that it is useless and only a clueless liberal would dare touch it. Go ahead I dare you.
Click to expand...
I would preach about what will happen to Israel when they Turn back to the Lord and God will do those things in Ezekiel 36 . Rightly dividing the word of truth .
 
awelight

awelight

Well-known member
#876
Aug 10, 2020
1,629
490
83
69
#876
This maybe of interest to some. A survey done by Ligonier Ministries and LifeWay Research (Yr. 2020):

Questions asked and there responses.:


1). Jesus was a great teacher but He was not God.
--- Among general population -- 52% agreed and 36% disagreed.
--- Among Evangelicals ----------- 30% agreed and 66% disagreed.

2). God chose the people He would save, before He created the World.
--- Among general population -- 26% agreed and 50% disagreed.
--- Among Evangelicals ----------- 38% agreed and 44% disagreed.

3). The Bible, like all Sacred writings, contains helpful accounts of ancient myths but is not literally true.
--- Among general population -- 48% agreed and 41% disagreed.
--- Evangelicals were not questioned.

4). Religious belief is a matter of personal opinion, it is not objective.
--- Among general population -- 54% agreed and 34% disagreed.
--- Evangelicals were not questioned.

5) The Holy Spirit gives a spiritual New Birth or new life, before a person has faith in Jesus Christ.
-- general population was not questioned.
-- Among Evangelicals ------------ 57% agreed and 35% disagreed.

6). God accepts the worship of all religions, including Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
-- general population was not questioned.
-- Among Evangelicals ------------ 42% agreed and 48% disagreed.

>>>> missing percentages were in the category of "Not Sure".

The state of religion today.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#877
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#877
cv5 said:
I challenge you to stand up in front of your congregation, rip Ezekiel 36 out of your Bible, and throw it in the trashcan, telling everyone that it is useless and only a clueless liberal would dare touch it. Go ahead I dare you.
Click to expand...
is this a verse for you as well ?
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mathew 24.13 . let me guess ...
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#878
Nov 20, 2018
23,822
8,622
113
#878
throughfaith said:
Then you need to have a verse that says God causes belief in those he saves .
It certainly would change these verses .
4¶By Faith which God cased to happen Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5¶By faith Caused by God Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.( God is pleased at his own doing )
Your problem is you cannot find those verses that mean what you say . All Calvinsm does is find verses that are forced to fit the system . calvinsm teaches a anti Gospel message . Calvinsm is helping Satan blinding people even further from the Gospel .
Click to expand...
Here you go. God causing people to believe, and a number of other things!
Some interesting commentary at this link:
https://carm.org/can-god-cause-a-person-to-believe-in-him

  • Prov. 21:1, "The king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the Lord; He turns it wherever He wishes."
  • John 1:12-13, "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, WHO WERE BORN NOT OF BLOOD, NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD."
  • Acts 16:14, "A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul."
  • Phil. 1:29, "Philippians 1:29, "For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake."
  • 1 Pet. 1:3, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#879
Jul 3, 2015
61,159
30,309
113
#879
cv5 said:
John 6:44 is a statement by Jesus where he reveals to us that He understands why it is that certain people do not hearken to his teaching. Same with John 6:37. It isn't Jesus that is confused about predestination or election, that's for sure.
Click to expand...


John 12:31-32 :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.