Eschatology differences & how people get treated

I've been called names and was even denied salvation by some over eschatology differences.
I believe that nobody can indisputably prove what exactly will happen in the future...
Do you personally think it's justified to display that level of hostility towards others when it comes to this subject?
Have you had similar experiences, people getting ugly about differences in opinion about what's going to happen in the future?

I've been called names and was even denied salvation by some over eschatology differences.
I believe that nobody can indisputably prove what exactly will happen in the future...
Do you personally think it's justified to display that level of hostility towards others when it comes to this subject?
Have you had similar experiences, people getting ugly about differences in opinion about what's going to happen in the future?

Who is to say that when Gods wrath is poured out it would land on believers if they where still here?
Arent the 144k on the earth during the time of Gods wrath?
What if we are still here and walking in the fullness of Christ, being provided for by God and being subject to martyrdom while the wrath falls on everyone else.
IDK
Pan trib myself - For those who truly believe in Jesus it will all pan out in the end.

You guys still falling to see the wrath off GOD , for one minute put away rapture ideology and re-study and I'm pretty sure you will find it if not , after a few I will reveal it to you all ..

The most terrible aspect or tribulation of His wrath is re being reveled daily .(Roman 1): it began its corruption in the garden when the glory of God departed having corrupted all things by the power of His word.

A dead creation sufferings the wage of sin according to the letter of the law "death " revealed from heaven The tribulation cannot exceed death never to rise to new spirit life. The dust returns just as the temporal spirt subject to death returns to the father of spirit life..

It cannot be divided into time periods or severity . Death according to the letter of the law on the last day "death" will be thrown into the judgment fire of God never to rise again and condemn through corruption a entire creation ever again

Your 100% correct, the church will be on earth during the tribulation, divinely protected by God

It's gonna be a 3.5 year remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt.
The (Two Witnesses) will be present bringing plagues upon the Beast/Antichrist and his kingdom

When plagues fell upon the Egyptians, the Hebrews were protected, gonna be the same during the tribulation, the church will be protected.

The plagues of scorpions are commanded to hurt only those (Not Sealed By God)

Revelation 9:2-4KJV
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

All Believers Are Sealed By God The Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Below we see God's divine protection, if the world try's to harm a believer, they in return will be harmed!

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Escaping the suffering of God's wrath is not and easy way out, but a legal precedent with God. Since God's wrath has already been satisfied by Christ, why would the faithful still be appointed to suffer it? That would be like saying even though Christ paid the penalty for our sins by the shedding of His blood, that in addition, God still requires from believers the shedding of their blood for forgiveness.

It is not a matter of wanting the easy way out, but that the requirement of God's wrath because of sin has been satisfied for those in Christ. And because of this, believers cannot legally be here to be exposed to it. Our being removed from the earth is a promise from the Lord, which we should be anticipating and looking forward to.

Yeah I dont need to be correct I just need to be His.
His faithful obedient servant.
The rest is in His hands.

I mean suffering purscutions as in the cross for hte faith.
Not Gods wrath.

But then there are those who will be saved as if through fire.

Thought: Gods Wrath/Anger and Gods Judgement/Condemnation .... Two different things?
If so how would that change understandings?

A good book on this topic is Revelation, by G. K Beale. The shorter version eliminates the Greek. If you know some Greek, it is worth it to read the longer version. I challenge anyone with another eschatological viewpoint to read it. It will explain all the questions you have about Amillennialism.. You may not agree in the end, which is your right, But at least you will understand why it is a viable option to explain end times.

I understand what you were saying. However, because that entire time period will be where God's wrath will be poured out, then we can not be here because of that principle. It will be the time of God's wrath which the entire world will be exposed to.



The above is referring to those who works are burned up in the fire at the bema seat of Christ. This is not speaking about believers going through God's wrath.



God's wrath is the fulfillment of the day of the Lord, which is not a day nor an hour in length, but is the seven year time period. During this time, God's grace is still in process for people to repent and believe. He even sends and angel to fly through mid air over the earth to warn every nation, tribe, people and language the consequences of worshiping the beast, his image or receiving his mark. Those who continue to reject Christ, will either be killed as a result of God's wrath, in which their spirits will depart and go into Hades. Once there, they will be in torment until the great white throne judgment where they will stand before God and be held accountable for all of their evil works and will be condemned in the lake of fire.

So to answer the question, a person has the opportunity to believe in Christ and the word of God and not worship the beast, his image and not receive his mark and will have the hope of eternal life, even though he will most likely die for his faith. That person will not be condemned. However, if they continue to reject Christ and worship the beast, his image and receive his mark, it's game over! All that person has to look forward to is condemning judgment.

God's wrath which is coming upon this earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, is separate from the great white throne judgment which takes place after the millennial kingdom. This will be the final judgment and leads directly to condemnation in the lake of fire.

well, I would remind you about Hymeneas and Philetus, who were teaching that the resurrection had already taken place. Paul called it godless chatter, that this teaching would spread like gangrene and that because of this teaching they had wandered away from the truth. So yeah, it is important to be correct in what you are teaching. Anyone who doesn't don't know it shouldn't teach it.

Likewise, Peter refers to Paul's letters as wisdom from God and as scripture. And that those who were distorting what he had written as being ignorant and unstable people, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. So again, yes, being correct is important. The people who are teaching that Jesus has already come and that the resurrection has already taken place, fall under the error as Hymeneus and Philetus as wandering away from the truth.

Likewise, there are groups today who refer to Paul as a false apostle and just like those people mentioned by Peter, they do so to their own destruction.

We should not be blown away by every wind of doctrine, but should search out the truth. Many of these people with these other teachings come in half cocked, i.e. making their claims having only partial information

Hello Lion222,

This is why the book of Revelation was given to us, so that we could know what God's wrath will be and when it would take place. The first verse of Revelation says: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness."

"What things" that must take place in quickness, are the events of wrath which take up the majority of the Revelation described from chapter 6 thru 18, said wrath being carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments." The things that must take place in quickness," as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring and all related information make up the wrath of God. This is why God gave us this book so that we could know what is going to take place. We also know when said wrath will take place, which will be after the gathering of the church, because believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.

Regarding God's wrath landing on believers, this is why Jesus warned every believer to be watching and ready for His imminent return. Paul called it the 'blessed hope' (Titus 2:13) and said that we should "comfort each other with these words" (I Thess.4:18). Consequently, for those who preach that the church will be here during the time of God's wrath, in that case there would be nothing to comfort each other about. Likewise, if the Lord was to put us through His wrath and then gather us afterwards, then our gathering would be no blessed hope, for we would be punished right along with the wicked.

As I have said in many posts, regarding the timing of God's wrath in relation to the gathering of the church, many do not understand the underlying principle in that, Christ already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe in Christ and we cannot be here to experience it. There will however be another group who will be on the earth during the time of God's wrath who will become believers after the church has been removed. These are those introduced in Revelation 7:9-17 as that great number of white robed saints which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, which would make them Gentiles. They will be here, because they will have become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath. This group will be exposed to God's wrath simply because they will be caught in that time period which will affect the entire world. Because of their testimony for Jesus and the word of God and because they will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, they will be enemies of the beast and the world. You think that the riots currently taking place now are bad? These great tribulation saints will be hunted down by authorities and by the population.



The woman, her pregnancy, her child and the seven headed dragon, are all symbolic representing the literal. Genesis 37:9-10 provides the identity of the woman who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars as being the unbelieving nation of Israel. I say this because Jacob replying to Joseph's dream reveals the identity of the sun representing Jacob, the moon representing his wife or wives and the eleven stars representing eleven of the twelve tribes of Israel, with Joseph being the twelfth star. God uses those same symbols in Revelation to identify the woman who is clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars.

Since the woman is not a literal woman, then neither is her pregnancy nor will she literally be giving birth to a literal male child.

In Revelation 14:4 John writes regarding the 144,000:

"These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins."

By saying that these 144,000 have not defiled themselves with women, it identifies them as being all males, ergo, the Male Child of chapter 12. The Male Child is a collective name representing the 144,000, twelve thousand from each tribe. As scripture states, these will be 144,000 who will acknowledge Jesus as their Messiah. Therefore, these 144,000 believing Israelites coming out of the unbelieving nation of Israel, is the figurative meaning of the woman giving birth to the male child, i.e. unbelieving Israel giving birth to believing Israel.

Since the male child is figuratively representing the 144,000, then in the middle of the seven years, around the same time that Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth, the male child (144,000} will be caught up to God and His throne, prior to the great tribulation beginning, which is that last 3 1/2 years of the seven year period.

I would also point out that the same word "harpazo" translated as 'snatched up' used to describe the gathering of the living church, is the same word used to describe the male child being caught up to God. Though not mentioned, I would venture that at the time they are caught up, they will also be changed immortal and glorified, just as the living church is at the time of Christ's appearing.



Anyone who has done a true study on the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments knows that anyone who is present on the earth during that time will be exposed to those plagues of wrath, which is why Jesus and the apostles continually warn us to be watching and ready so that day will not close on us like a trap. Because of that underlying principle that I mentioned earlier in this post of Jesus already taking upon himself God's wrath on our behalf, the church cannot be subject to God's wrath that has already been satisfied by the Lord.

In answer to your question and for example, when that 4th angel pours out his bowl on the sun which gives it power to scorch men with fire and sear them with intense heat, where on the earth could the church go to escape that? Likewise, when those demonic beings come up out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants with tails and stings like scorpions, the only one's who are mentioned as being protected from that torment will be those who will have been sealed with the seal of God on their foreheads, which are only the 144,000. This sealing is not to be confused with our being sealed by the Holy Spirit, but will be a literal, visible sealing marking those 144,000 of whom those demonic being will not be able to touch. Other than this group, no one else is said to be excluded from this torment. That would mean that if the church was here they would also be subject to this plague of wrath. Those who are currently in Christ and are watching for His appearing, are not destined for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which along with the plagues the two witnesses will bring, make up the wrath of God.

For example:
Inventing another seal for believers besides the Holy Spirit?

Why do you think Jesus divided it into periods of severity when he said that there would be an tribulation so great that it would never be as great again and had not been before that time? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 24:21&yversion=KJV Why did Jesus divide it into periods of severity but you think we should not?

I would think the greater is not in respect to the severity. .Just as the father is not greater than the Son but in a greater position of the two that works together as one. The greater tribulation has to be like none before or ever gain .One demonstration is all that was propmised.

When the reformation came the veil was rent and the prophecy was fulfilled . Revelation 20;3.

In the last days the gospel will be silenced or killed. And Satan will be loosened for a short while and again deceive all the nations That a person must first become a Jew under the letter of the law death with the same promise of the garden thou shall surely will no die. Look to the flesh of a Jew and live.

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

No greater tribulation than that death .The wrath that is being revealed from heaven under the Sun

That seen below is 100% in the Lord's (Spiritual Realm) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual Realm.