The Natural Man

"All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ: yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace."

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What do you suppose are "the things of the Spirit of God"? Perhaps the things the Holy Spirit teaches.

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.



Kinda seems like we need Holy Spirit to accurately understand things. The apostles didn't understand a lot of what Jesus was teaching while he was with them. They were to wait for Holy Spirit before they went out teaching. (black bold some similarities)

Luke 24:45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 1:4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with a water, but in a few days you will be baptized with b the Holy Spirit.” 6Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Matthew 28:18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What do you suppose are "the things of the Spirit of God"? Perhaps the things the Holy Spirit teaches.

John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.



Kinda seems like we need Holy Spirit to accurately understand things. The apostles didn't understand a lot of what Jesus was teaching while he was with them. They were to wait for Holy Spirit before they went out teaching. (black bold some similarities)

Luke 24:45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 1:4On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5For John baptized with a water, but in a few days you will be baptized with b the Holy Spirit.” 6Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

Matthew 28:18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Calvinists give God all the glory in His work of seeking and saving the lost.
God saves 100%.

Yes sadly this is taught widely and even some translations mess this up like the Niv and the NET for example .
The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I agree. The things of God cannot be comprehended by the unsaved. But consider this. Every problem in Acts of the Apostles concerned BELIEVERS. Every letter written in the New Testament was written to a Church or believers, except maybe Peter and James. How come - if the things of God are understood by those born of the Spirit? How come Peter, who was personally trained by the Lord Jesus, was born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit, could say that the things that Paul wrote were hard to understand (2nd Pet.3:15-16). After all, he addressed the, "... beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour" (2nd Peter 3:1-2).

Are the unbelievers "beloved"? Do the heathen have "pure minds"? Can a man be "mindful" of God's Words, Old and New Testament when he is an enemy of God? No. Peter writes to Christians, and they, and Peter himself, had trouble with Paul's writings.

I agree. The things of God cannot be comprehended by the unsaved. But consider this. Every problem in Acts of the Apostles concerned BELIEVERS. Every letter written in the New Testament was written to a Church or believers, except maybe Peter and James. How come - if the things of God are understood by those born of the Spirit? How come Peter, who was personally trained by the Lord Jesus, was born again and Baptized in the Holy Spirit, could say that the things that Paul wrote were hard to understand (2nd Pet.3:15-16). After all, he addressed the, "... beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour" (2nd Peter 3:1-2).

Are the unbelievers "beloved"? Do the heathen have "pure minds"? Can a man be "mindful" of God's Words, Old and New Testament when he is an enemy of God? No. Peter writes to Christians, and they, and Peter himself, had trouble with Paul's writings.

ok I'm confused . What do you think I'm saying ?

The lost man can understand the Gospel . The carnal / natural believer's can under stand the deeper wisdom but they need to mature first in the things of God ,to be able .

I do not seek contention, but the thread is about the "Natural man". You keep using the term "the unbeliever" - as if they were synonomous. I showed in my first posting the definitions and usage of "the natural man" in the Bible. I also showed that all men, believer and unbeliever are natural while in this body. It is just that the believer has access to the Holy Spirit if he wants. But that does not stop him being natural if he turns to that source. Plainly said; The BELIEVER can be "natural".

John 6:
43“Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus replied. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from Him comes to Me—…

Not a calvanist though but our Lord said this so I believe it!

Where? I'm definitely not saying the unbeliever and the natural man are synonymous. Its the opposite . I don't think Paul is taking about lost men at all in 1 cor 2 and 3 ,in that context .

Hi MonicaLara, and welcome to the Forum. I hope you profit much.

Your answer is one of the best. Just believe what the inspired Word says and leave out the "boxes" that people try to put one in. A preclse and accurate inspection of your verses just shows that man is incapable of "drawing" himself Godward. A man once said that an unbeliever is is like a snowball on a hill. He can only go down, gain size and momentum, and land in hell, UNLESS God reverses the direction. That about sums up your verses. It favors neither Calvin nor Arminius, but it is the truth.

I do not seek contention, but the thread is about the "Natural man". You keep using the term "the unbeliever" - as if they were synonomous. I showed in my first posting the definitions and usage of "the natural man" in the Bible. I also showed that all men, believer and unbeliever are natural while in this body. It is just that the believer has access to the Holy Spirit if he wants. But that does not stop him being natural if he turns to that source. Plainly said; The BELIEVER can be "natural".