"this generation will not pass away" - until the second coming of Jesus?

(Your A Full Preterist)

You deny a future second coming of Jesus Christ And a future resurrection of all that have died in faith.

It's my opinion that this belief is worse than the cults, Heretical.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Was the second Temple valid . Will the one the Jews are prepared to build now be ?
Solomon's Temple was built to house the Ark of the Covenant .. God told David his son , not him would build it .. The Ark of the Covenant is missing since the Babylonian exile and still missing when the Jews built the second temple ..

Did I miss the first bus, when is the next bus ?

At the top of what? Your question is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

You use a bible translation, what is your tip pick?

You scared to answer a simple question?

Yes, I use several Bible translations. I don't have a "top pick".

Obviously, I misunderstood you. My apologies.

Luckily your opinion only matters to you. You think Christ either lied or was mis-informed about when He would return to destroy the temple and Israel. Your view has all who died in faith stuck in Hades for thousands of years, apart from God. My view has Hades emptied of believers nearly 2,000 years ago. For those who were still alive and remaining at that time, I believe each are caught up to heaven immediately upon death.

RESURRECTION = RELEASE FROM HADES

It has nothing to do with our flesh bodies being converted into spiritual bodies. Our earth bodies decay and return to dust. They serve no further purpose and I challenge you to show me a passage that states they come back to life.

Some will be alive when it happens and not die but be changed.

Jesus's body was dead and came back to life.

Can you explain what it is that "makes perfect sense" to you?


Consider the following from the "Song of Moses" [see also Rev15:1-4] way back in Deuteronomy 32 (quoted in part) -

15 But Jeshurune [i.e. Israel] grew fat and kicked—

becoming fat, bloated, and gorged.

He abandoned the God who made him

and scorned the Rock of his salvation.

[...]

18 You ignored the Rock who brought you forth;

you forgot the God who gave you birth.

19 When the LORD saw this, He rejected them,

provoked to anger by His sons and daughters.

20 He said: “I will hide My face from them;

I will see what will be their end [H319 - acharith / ’a-ḥă-rî-ṯām; ].

For they are a perverse generation—

children of unfaithfulness.

21 They have provoked My jealousy by that which is not God;

they have enraged Me with their worthless idols.

So I will make them jealous by those who are not a people;f

I will make them angry by a nation without understanding.g [see this cited in Romans 10:19]

22 For a fire has been kindled by My anger,

and it burns to the depths of Sheol;

it consumes the earth and its produce,

and scorches the foundations of the mountains.



Why does verse 20 talk about "their end" and that they are "a perverse generation." Shouldn't this mean that their "generation" ended in the time of Moses rather than "thousands of years AFTER Moses existed" at the time they themselves existed (given your understanding of the term "generation")? Shouldn't have the word "their end [G319]" applied to them at that time that those persons ['generation'] actually existed (according to your viewpoint)? If not, why not?

[quoting from Hosea 5:14 - 6:3 again]


I've posted this before about the "days" (and/or "day") issues (the ones that are not "singular 24-hr days"):

Hosea 5:15-6:3 [re: Israel] -

14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim

and like a young lion to the house of Judah.

I, even I, will tear them to pieces

and then go away.

I will carry them off

where no one can rescue them.

15 Then I will return to My place

until they admit their guilt and seek My face;

in their affliction

they will earnestly [or, early] seek Me.”

6:1 Come, let us [Israel] return to the LORD.

For He has torn us [Israel] to pieces,

but He will heal us [Israel];

He has wounded us [Israel],

but He will bind up our [Israel's] wounds.

2 After two days He will revive [H2421] us [Israel]; [see H2421 in Ezekiel 37 also, vv.3,5,6,9,10,14]

on/in the third day He will raise [H6965] us [Israel] up, [see H6965 in Isaiah 26 also, v.19]

that we [Israel] may live [H2421 (ditto the above note)] in His presence.

3 So let us [Israel] know—

let us [Israel] press on to know the LORD.

As surely as the sun rises,

He will appear;

He will come to us [Israel] like the rain,

like the spring showers that water the earth [/as the latter rain unto the earth].


____________

[then... quoting Gaebelein's Commentary on Hosea 5]

"And like the lion after his attack withdraws to his den, so the Lord would withdraw from them, leave them and return to His place, waiting till their repentance comes and they seek Him early in their affliction.

"The last verse of this chapter has a wider meaning than the past judgment which came upon the house of Israel. The Lord of glory came to earth and visited His people. He came with the message and offer of the kingdom to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He came unto His own, but His own received Him not. After they had rejected Him, delivered Him into the hands of the Gentiles to be crucified, He returned to His place. There He is now at the right hand of God, waiting for that day, when the remnant of Israel will repent and seek His face Acts 3:19-26. [I mentioned Acts 3:21's reference to FUTURE events (i.e. the "UNTIL") in my Post #71 of this thread (note: in a different thread)]. That will be in their coming great affliction, in the time of Jacob’s trouble.

"Hosea 6:1-3. The division of the chapter at this point is unfortunate. The three verses of chapter 6 must not be detached from the previous chapter. Here we have the future repentance of the remnant of Israel, that is during the great tribulation. Believingly they will acknowledge His righteous judgment and express their faith and hope in His mercy and the promised blessings and restoration. They express what their great prophet Moses so beautifully stated in His prophetic song, that great vision given to him, ere he went to the mountain to die. “See now that I, even I, am He and there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand” Deuteronomy 32:39. “After two days will He revive us; on the third day He will raise us up, and we shall live in His sight (literally, before His face).” They have been dead spiritually and nationally, but when the two days of their blindness and dispersion are over, there is coming for them the third day of life and [what is *LIKENED UNTO a] resurrection."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on Hosea 5 (taken from Bible Hub)

[end quoting Gaebelein; bold and underline mine; bracketed insertions mine]

[end quoting old post]

____________


Recall Rom11:25 "blindness [/a hardening]... UNTIL"

We don't know but, the time given this era is certainly supportive of His position of being tolerant, understanding, forgiving and patient for His plan to be completed.
It is getting so bad that most deeply committed and devoted Christians pray for His immediate return and ask for His forgiveness of our fellow man for their insanity. I can't believe how low we have come from any reasonable moral and civil values.
The peace agreements coming into effect in the mid-east with Israelis and Arabs is telling......... in time line.

My Statent Is Fact

1) You Deny A Future Second Coming Of Jesus Christ In The Heavens.

2) You Deny A Future Resurrection Of The Believer.

(Full Preterism) Is Heretical In My Opinion, And Also Many Other Believing Christian's Opinions.

Some will be alive when what happens? The resurrection? Of course. Many were alive when the resurrection at the end of the Mosaic age took place. They were changed but not in the way you think. They were re-programmed for heaven instead of Hades when they die. Now when a believer dies, they go straight to heaven. This is the rapture, it is individual and happens every time a believer dies.

Christ did not teach a mass transformation and taking away of the living. He taught that all must first die before they get to heaven. The writer of Hebrews teaches the same thing.

John 11:25-26. Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.

Then Paul, who you think teaches your rapture doctrine, conflicts with that teaching here:

2 Cor 5:6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

Peter teaches in Acts that only Christ's body didn't see corruption. All other bodies do and Paul taught that nothing corrupt can enter heaven. Christ returned to His body and appeared to many to prove He was resurrected. None of us will return to our flesh bodies. Paul makes that clear twice. Our flesh bodies serve no further purpose. They decay and return to dust.

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. Romans 6:5-6 NIV

What Paul was trying to say in 1 Thes 4 is that those who outlived (or were not yet born) when the resurrection at the end of the last age occurred would be caught up (raptured) upon their death. No more sleeping in Hades. This is the only way to take this passage as this is the clear teaching in all these other passages.

Because in Deuteronomy it was clearly speaking about the future as it was speaking of how Isreal "grew fat and kicked—becoming fat, bloated, and gorged. He abandoned the God who made him and scorned the Rock of his salvation"

This is prophesy of what was to come with no kind of "time limit" set. and in the NT records of what Jesus told those people, He clearly told them (without adding anything) that these things would take place soon, within "THAT GENERATION", and "by Joe" (not Joe Biden) even history backs up His story. Look you obviously don't agree with what we are saying here, I respect that and understand. I've believed the same thing before so I'm not judging here, but in this argument you seem to be arguing what makes sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you don't get to do that, like logically I believe that to be outside of your power. I am not trying to "attack" you at all here so please don't read this as like hyper defensive or really offended retribution. Also know I'm not reading yours like that either, I've read what you posted and I don't believe there is any contradicting with what He says there and the rest of His word that all fit's together in a way that blows my mind. Nothing you posted contradicts this in my mind.

As far as your actual questions-
Why does verse 20 talk about "their end" and that they are "a perverse generation." Shouldn't this mean that their "generation" ended in the time of Moses rather than "thousands of years AFTER Moses existed" at the time they themselves existed (given your understanding of the term "generation")? Shouldn't have the word "their end [G319]" applied to them at that time that those persons ['generation'] actually existed (according to your viewpoint)? If not, why not?

I really answered in my first sentence. If you read and understand the English language and then actually put everything in context, as far as what was written and where, who was saying these things and who were they spoken too? When ?I read this I clearly see and understand that a future generation will see these things. That's how it's written. When Jesus tells of the coming judgement it's ALWAYS in the context of "right here, the ax is right at the roots of the tree, ax in motion already swung, just right at the fingertips about to go down, this generation will not pass away before ALL these things take place, you will not be able to go to all the towns in Israel before the Son of Man comes, Don't weep for Me, weep for your children". I could go on and on, but YES this belief make so much moire sense to me, it can be defended so much better (to me), and has ignited a fire in me and drawn me closer to God than anything else I've been guided to by His Spirit so far, strait up that's what I testify. But that said my views on this have changed a lot on this matter and I don't believe fighting among each other is glorifying to Jesus.

I think I can share where He's lead me, if asked be able to tell you why and how from scripture and listen to you and you belief to, from there pray God leads me to truth and to correct my heart and views where I'm mistaken and pray the same for my brother or sister that shared with me. Trusting fully that His Spirit leads us ALL to all truth and our jobs are to share this truth, not "convince" each other in that way.

So thank you for sharing with me brother and know I did read and understand what you were saying, so thanks for taking the time to share.

Your statement is a tradition of man. It is not Biblical!! You have no passage to support your position. All you have are incorrect interpretations of passages when read plainly support my view that the presence of Christ returned in the first century. This was the second coming that you incorrectly place into our future. I showed you multiple passages where Christ Himself declared that He was coming back to His generation and those standing there would witness it. They were told to wait and watch for it.

As for the resurrection, it is over. It happened once for the believers who were in Hades. It happened at the end of the last age. Today, when a believer dies, they are immediately raptured to heaven. This is the clear teaching when you take all the passages together. No other possibility exists without creating conflicts, which you do all the time!!

You misjudged my position. I Don't believe in a rapture out of suffering.
I'm Catholic.
I believe the suffering is sanctifying Christians. He unites their suffering to His.

All of it.

1) The first century return of Christ's presence
2) The resurrection of the just out of Hades and into heaven
3) The restoration of all things
4) The teaching to be sober, watch and wait so you won't miss it
5) The end of the Mosaic Age (Law) and the ushering in of our age of Grace
6) The Book of Revelation being about the end of Israel

etc...

I agree with that statement. Sorry, we get a lot of futurists and rapturists on here and ppl ignorant of history.

In Love

Your Catholic

Haven't you taken a close look at the popes, ritual, abuses, etc in the Catholic Church?

Pope John Paul sheltered Cardinal Law below, he was indicted in Boston to face charges in his involvent in 400 child molestation charges, Cardinal Law fled to (Vatican City) just before his arrest, and was protected from Extradition by Pope John Paul?

That alone would have me running away from anything associated with the Catholic Church?

Wikipedia: Bernard Francis Law (November 4, 1931 – December 20, 2017) was an American cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He was Archbishop Emeritus of Boston, former archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore, and Cardinal Priest of Santa Susanna, which was the American Catholic church in Rome until 2017, when the American community was relocated to San

Law in the mid-1980s
Archdiocese Boston Appointed January 11, 1984

Law was Archbishop of Boston from 1984 until his resignation on December 13, 2002, after his involvement in the Catholic Archdiocese of Boston sex abuse scandal became public knowledge. Law was proven to have ignored or concealed the molestation of numerous underage children;[1][2] church documents demonstrate that he had extensive knowledge concerning widespread child sexual abuse committed by dozens of Catholic priests within his archdiocese over a period of almost two decades, and that he failed to report these crimes to the authorities, instead merely transferring the accused priests between parishes.[3] One priest in Law's archdiocese, John Geoghan, was alleged to have raped or molested more than 130 children in six different parishes in a career which spanned 30 years.[3]

Two years after Law resigned from his position in Boston, an act which Bishop William S. Skylstad called "an important step in the healing process",[4] Pope John Paul II appointed him Archpriest of the Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore in Rome in 2004. He resigned from this position upon reaching the age of 80 in November 2011 and died in Rome on December 20, 2017, at the age of 86.

Within weeks of his resignation, Law moved from Boston to Rome.[24] When the state attorney general issued his report entitled Child Sexual Abuse in the Archdiocese of Boston (July 23, 2003), he severely criticized Law, mentioning that "the Archdiocese has shown an institutional reluctance to adequately address the problem and, in fact, made choices that allowed the abuse to continue," but did not allege that Law had tried to evade investigation.[24] He said that Cardinal Law had not broken any laws, because the law requiring abuse to be reported was not expanded to include priests until 2002.[32]