LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

Myrtle,
Your husband must be pretty awesome. I'm sure he is a very high tier man in order to snag a woman like you. I'm not kidding. Keep on honoring God and him through your actions.

Nothing is worse than an endlessly yapping woman. So tiresome. Be different. Follow that narrow path.

It's always a good idea to look at all the relevant Scripture verses on a subject, and not draw conclusions on one or two, especially when they are not considered within their contexts.

There is a lot of cultural context that is relevant to understanding Paul's words to Timothy. There is also a lot of biblical context to the subject of male and female roles. There is a place for respecting the practice in the local congregation, whether you agree with that particular interpretation or not. There's no need to rock the boat, but there is also no need to subscribe to an unspoken expectation; especially one where people would try to silence you with it. Many people take the plaint text out of its context, and don't want to put the effort in to research the matter to understand it thoroughly. Sadly, too often such people try to force their views on others.

In Genesis 3:16, God speaks to Eve and says, "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Many people interpret this as, "It is right for men to rule over women", but that is not what it says. In fact, in many cases, men ruling over women is a fulfillment of this unfortunate consequence.

To your question specifically, men do speak in the church I attend, as do women, so perhaps it's merely a question of one's subculture.

But it does not say "women were not to be allowed to preach publicly in the churches" in verse 12 so how could it be clear? You would have to be told by someone that is what Paul intended to say. But did he?

To interpret 2 Tim 2 it is very helpful to read 1 Pet 3. Very Helpful is an understatement.

1 Peter 3:1-6 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. 3Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. 5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: 6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.

Now compare with 2 Tim 2 and notice the strikingly similar wording. As if Peter was quoting Paul.

1 Tim 2:9-12 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

I believe that using the rule of theological context in interpretation we have a strong case to say that Paul was talking about the same thing that Peter was talking about especially when Paul does mention the Adam and Eve scenarios confirming that this is about a wife toward her husband. It has nothing to do with banning women from preaching. AND IT IS NOT CLEAR AT ALL THAT IS WHAT PAUL MEANT. That is eisegesis, (reading into the text what is not there) rather than exegesis (understanding the authors intended meaning)

It is IMPOSSIBLE that Paul's authorial intent was to ban women from PULPIT ministry Because the PULPIT had not been invented yet and this would not have entered his mind. It would have been IMPOSSIBLE for his readers to have had that concept either. eisegesis has caused people to put words in Paul's mouth (like publically in the church, pulpit, preach the Bible) and ideas in his head that he did not write and could not have known to write (pulpit, Sunday School, etc) We have no authority to apply modern church assembly concepts to what was happening at the church of Ephesus at the time of Paul.

Peter was more verbose but it is obvious they were talking about the same things. The wife toward the husband, the attitude of the woman toward the man (Paul's use of Adam and Even confirm that he was talking about that relationship not pulpit preaching) It is not godly for the woman to Correct/Teach, or rule over the man and especially in public is it shameful to see that happen. It is embarrassing to the man for the woman to Teach/correct/scold him. She should be respectful, give him honor, hold her peace, if she is really concerned about something, ask him at home not in public, causing contention, and making a scene as it were. Especially in the church if there are other believers around who might side with her opinion over the husbands and cause divisions. 1 Cor 14 is another example telling them to be silent and ask their husbands their questions at home because they were being out of order asking in a disruptive way. He also told those who spoke in tongues (male and female) to be silent if there were no interpreter, and he told those who prophesied (male or female) to be silent in the church if someone else had a word to share and take turns. The phrase be silent has been taken beyond what Paul intended and strange doctrines banning women from preaching the word of God We know it is Gods plan to empower women to prophesy (that is using their words) They are called to proclaim the Word of God in the church, out of the church, on top of the church, under the church, and everywhere else.
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Nothing is worse than an endlessly yapping woman

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

another thread for pugilists, misogynists, misinterpretation and all around bad feelings.

Because of course this has never ever been argued discussed before in this forum

It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
We have recently started to attend a Mennonite church in town here. I like the church a lot. I admire and enjoy how so many men are willing to preach in the meetings. This is not true in most other churches. I have chosen not to even answer Bible questions that are asked by some of the preachers there, as I'm afraid it would offend some men there or intimidate them. My own dad (now with the Lord in heaven) said he believed women should not talk at all in Bible meetings or church meetings. I also learned from a man (Jerry) that attends the Mennonite church - that he doesn't believe women should speak in church meetings. So I gather that a number of men feel that way.
I am curious to know others' opinions of why it may be that men speak so little in most other churches. What do you think? Do you think it's because in our society - culture - women are largely often overly controlling over men (or insubmissive) , such as their own husbands?
I know their men are taught to preach a lot more commonly in their youth, compared to in Christian families that attend most other churches. I like that, and can imagine that is one reason this Mennonite church has so many men who like to teach and preach.
Also, I notice in the visiting time that takes place outdoors after Sunday AM church services - that the men show a lot more enjoyment for talking together (and discussing spiritual things too with others), as compared to what I see in other churches. They aren't in a hurry to rush home. The women too - of course, enjoy visiting together, too during that time - more than I see in other churches.

As I have stated in many other similar threads Paul saying that "I do not permit' is not the same as God saying that He does not permit. It was Paul's opinion that women should keep quiet in church and not God's.

I think you misunderstand the intent of the OP: would it not be better to just discuss the Scriptures in a gentle manner, rather than throwing such terms around? One does not have to agree, and the "bad feelings" were not begun by the OP here . . .

Tell me how many women spoke inside the tabernacle or the temple? How many women were permitted to speak in the Jewish assemblies? This stems from Jewish traditions in the worship of the Lord God. The priests who served in the temple were men not women. Women served outside the temple.

unless it's a person like you making comments like that.

Exactly what I thought when I read that. Quite unloving to other new born creatures in Christ, from people who claim men should be leaders and therefore they should be our examples then.

It's the most absurd thing, actually bizarre, how some men like to insert themselves between a man and his wife. If they think women are lesser creatures, you'd think they'd at least honor the husband who has the authority in that house (as they preach), and keep silent for the sake of his honor, but they try to supercede his authority in his house. Also taking upon themselves to act in pastor role when overseers they are not, in meddlesome attempts to insert themselves between a man and his wife and lord over wives of OTHER men and also girls who are not even married and in care of their fathers. Or elder widows who serve God and are under Christ's authority not their dad's. These people want to insert themselves everywhere and run the rodeo. I think it's really bizarre.

Tell me how many women spoke inside the tabernacle or the temple? How many women were permitted to speak in the Jewish assemblies? This stems from Jewish traditions in the worship of the Lord God. The priests who served in the temple were men not women. Women served outside the temple.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is clear in verse 12, that women were not to be allowed to preach publicly, in churches. But it is less clear what verse 11 means, as to the order for women to learn in silence in church. So since the Bible is not clear on that subject, I think women have to prayerfully decide that for themselves.
1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
KJV
We have recently started to attend a Mennonite church in town here. I like the church a lot. I admire and enjoy how so many men are willing to preach in the meetings. This is not true in most other churches. I have chosen not to even answer Bible questions that are asked by some of the preachers there, as I'm afraid it would offend some men there or intimidate them. My own dad (now with the Lord in heaven) said he believed women should not talk at all in Bible meetings or church meetings. I also learned from a man (Jerry) that attends the Mennonite church - that he doesn't believe women should speak in church meetings. So I gather that a number of men feel that way.
I am curious to know others' opinions of why it may be that men speak so little in most other churches. What do you think? Do you think it's because in our society - culture - women are largely often overly controlling over men (or insubmissive) , such as their own husbands?
I know their men are taught to preach a lot more commonly in their youth, compared to in Christian families that attend most other churches. I like that, and can imagine that is one reason this Mennonite church has so many men who like to teach and preach.
Also, I notice in the visiting time that takes place outdoors after Sunday AM church services - that the men show a lot more enjoyment for talking together (and discussing spiritual things too with others), as compared to what I see in other churches. They aren't in a hurry to rush home. The women too - of course, enjoy visiting together, too during that time - more than I see in other churches.

Tell me how many women spoke inside the tabernacle or the temple? How many women were permitted to speak in the Jewish assemblies? This stems from Jewish traditions in the worship of the Lord God. The priests who served in the temple were men not women. Women served outside the temple.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The verse at hand is concerning the body of Christ. Do you not agree with God?

I have a crush on a mute woman but she never tells me how she feels. 🤔

It may help somewhat if you would learn sign language. Hopefully, she won't give you the finger. That's never a good sign in any language.

This tradition probably had a huge impact in saying that he doe not permit a woman to speak in church. Jewish assemblies are steeped in tradition and strict adherence to Mosaic law. A gentile church assembly is another thing altogether.