Not By Works

Here is the size of a mustard seed.



Now What Mountain was HE referring To ? ? ?

I think it was the MOUNTAIN OF SIN, that stood between GOD and US.
A little bit of that kind of FAITH, REMOVES THAT MOUNTAIN OF SIN, FOREVER,
Giving US that FREE GRACE OF GOD, causing us to be REDEEMED, by HIS POWER.

The first requires more explanation than I care to go through in a post, but the second I should be able to address fairly quickly. Any verse can be directed towards any nation, true, but in order to get a meaning out of the verse we must be able to see that within the intended meanings of the original context. The context of Isaiah 64 limits the usage of Isaiah's words to a situation in which a gross sin is being committed and nothing within the context suggests he was making an anthropologic point so it is inappropriate to use it for such a point. The same is true of Psalm 51 and Romans 3:10 which are often stripped of their context for the same point.

But works of faith create a complete picture of faith.

For whom does it create a complete picture of faith?

So now you are limiting scripture to a specific time/place/person. While scripture does refer to such, that very same scripture is to be applied appropriately to current time/place/person. I do not have time to go through every scripture which denote how important FAITH is in the equation of our relationship with Our Lord. If you are that much of a student of the bible, you will know where to locate all scripture relating to that word, faith.

IMHO you are saying faith cannot stand alone without some type of action. That disagree with. However, faith will eventually invoke an action. But faith can/does/has/ will stand by itself whenever it comes to our relationship with Creator God.

Mankind complicates and does all kinds of complication to God's Word/God's Plans.
It is not that complicated.

It's not a matter of "for who" as it's not about demonstration. It's two sides of the same coin. The faith that saves is a faith that produces works, and the works that spring from that faith complete the faith.

This is the faith that saves...........

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

It does not state.....

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 completed by works, so that no one can boast.

If what you promote is true than Paul is a liar and by default so is God.

The fact that Jesus states faith the size of a mustard seed is still great faith says a lot about the power and beauty of faith.

So then James is a liar? Why are James' words subject to some mysterious "context" that isn't present in his letter but Paul's aren't?

It seems to me the conflict is rather simple to address since Paul's removal of works is about merit and James' use of works is about fidelity. Paul even follows up with his removal of works in salvation to speak of the works we are to do " For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works..." So no, Paul isn't lying but his point isn't the same as James'.

... and the works that spring from that faith complete the faith.

It's not a matter of "for who" as it's not about demonstration. It's two sides of the same coin. The faith that saves is a faith that produces works, and the works that spring from that faith complete the faith.

This is the faith that saves...........

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

It does not state.....

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 completed by works, so that no one can boast.

If what you promote is true than Paul is a liar and by default so is God.

Is it just me, or are you and @Bbrdrd actually saying the same thing? I don't understand the opposition of thought between you...

Just because faith will naturally produce a result by the means of inner change, doesn't mean we are saved BY works. Rather when I first noticed my life getting changed I thought, yeah Jesus really did change me, so if I had any doubts I then knew for fact that I really was a new creature, I could then see what I first believed. It's actually focusing on the first fruits of His word taking root in some areas of my life that I kept my sanity and faith, believing that Jesus will also take care of the rest and shepherd me through, in the first period of my believer life when I encountered a lot of sinless perfectionism teachings. But my new behaviors didn't save me nor did they "maintain" salvation. That does not even compute you're either saved forever or you are not born again yet, there's no "maintaining" salvation. Jesus saved me back when I had no works to present. And any work that might have followed is His work on me, really. I don't think to believe this is works salvation. Am I wrong and if so, where?

If works completes faith then the was the faith of the thief on the cross incomplete?

I don't believe that it was.
I could have died before my faith produced visible fruit.
Some would argue that by rebuking another thief, his work was speaking the truth which came from inner change. But even if he died before saying anything, he would be saved just the same. Saying that an apple is complete by growing baby apples if it lives long enough, doesn't mean that an apple tree that just started blooming is less of an apple tree.

I don't believe that it was.
I could have died before my faith produced visible fruit.
Some would argue that by rebuking another thief, his work was speaking the truth which came from inner change. But even if he died before saying anything, he would be saved just the same. Saying that an apple is complete by growing baby apples if it lives long enough, doesn't mean that an apple tree that just started blooming is less of an apple tree.

So then you agree that @Bbrdrd and I not saying the same thing at all?

Let us wait and see what they say to that post of yours I just answered. I'll give them a benefit of a doubt.

If God had only been a little more clear and direct in dictating the bible then we wouldnt have to have all these silly arguments. Its strange isnt it that God's will is that us humans should waste our time on silly nonsense like this instead of living good positive lives and not worrying about reward or punishment, still he is perfect and we are silly ignorant humans

I never thought of Jesus’ mustard seed analogy like that. It makes perfect sense and it’s beautiful. Thanks for sharing.