What translation has the exact words of God preserved for English speakers?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#81
That's your opinion and it is duly noted.
First, you didn't answer my question.

Second, it's my opinion based on the absolute absence of evidence to the contrary... which I have requested from you following your assertion, and which has not been provided.

As for "duly noted", when did you join the Thought Police?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#84
First, you didn't answer my question.

Second, it's my opinion based on the absolute absence of evidence to the contrary... which I have requested from you following your assertion, and which has not been provided.

As for "duly noted", when did you join the Thought Police?
Dino my friend, I don't know what to say... I bow out of this conversation.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#85
Honesty is always best even if it hurts someone's feelings.
Not according to Proverbs 17:27 "He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding."

To: "spareth his words" - "holdeth his peace" & "shutteth his lips" does not indicate that "honesty is always best". What scripture are you using to backup your statement? We do have the watchman in Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me." We are clearly to deliver a word if God sends us. That is a little bit different than being honest with people.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#86
Now we have the absolute inerrant word of God as given to us by the athiest scholars and wanna be Greek and Hebrew experts. And, get this. If you don't like the way one group of atheist scholars interpreted it, just go find another version that best suits your needs.
We should not limit ourself to an interpretation of the Bible. We should study the Bible in the Original language. Everything comes down to Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." If we understand this then we will understand the rest of the Bible. If we do not understand this, then we will not understand the rest of the Bible. Also Genesis 1:1 "In the Beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth". Clearly "Beginning" is the most important word if we want to understand the Bible. The word AND is very important also because Heaven AND earth are either united or divided. Jesus teaches us to pray: "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will be Done, on Earth as in Heaven". So clearly God wants Heaven and Earth to be UNITED not divided. He wants man and women to be united not divided. He wants His church united not divided. Jesus died to reconcile us with the Father AND to reconcile us with each other.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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#87
we could pick and choose which meaning of a word best fits our doctrine.
That is not the way it works. The Hebrew letters have a symbolic meaning. A represents the horns of a bull or ox. This represents the strength or leader. B represents a tent or a dwelling. C represents a camel or transportation but also commerce. The first letter of the word sets the tone for the rest of the word. This is all so easy and simple that a child can understand. A child can understand an ox, tent and camel. Of course today people usually do not live in a tent as they did in the desert when the Bible was written. They may live in a high rise building. Still the Bible is simple enough to be understood by any child that can learn the alphabet. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the word of God and He fulfills the righteous requirements of the law of God.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#88
That is not the way it works. The Hebrew letters have a symbolic meaning. A represents the horns of a bull or ox. This represents the strength or leader. B represents a tent or a dwelling. C represents a camel or transportation but also commerce. The first letter of the word sets the tone for the rest of the word. This is all so easy and simple that a child can understand. A child can understand an ox, tent and camel. Of course today people usually do not live in a tent as they did in the desert when the Bible was written. They may live in a high rise building. Still the Bible is simple enough to be understood by any child that can learn the alphabet. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He is the word of God and He fulfills the righteous requirements of the law of God.
I take it you're Hebrew Roots?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#89
The original language manuscript's have corrupted to the point that they have rotted away from the face of the earth. God knew this would happen so he covered it.

God's method of preservation was to have atheist Greek and Hebrew scholars sort through the pure inerrant copies of copies of fragments and corrupted copies of copies of fragments and have these atheist tell us which copies of copies are REAL and which ones aren't.

He also made it to where if we have enough money and sense, that we can learn foreign languages and use Greek and Hebrew dictionaries so that we could pick and choose which meaning of a word best fits our doctrine. If we don't have enough sense to do that, then we can ask people like Dino, TDW or James White what the bible is really trying to say. It is beyond comprehension that God would do it any other way, there is no way that he would inspire translators to write exactly what he wanted written so that your average Joe could pick up a bible and read it word for word.

Now we have the absolute inerrant word of God as given to us by the athiest scholars and wanna be Greek and Hebrew experts. And, get this. If you don't like the way one group of atheist scholars interpreted it, just go find another version that best suits your needs.

Of course I'm being facetious, God preserved his word EXACTLY the same way he wrote his word to start with.... He inspired men to write exactly what he wanted to be written.
LOL!

Option #1: You do not have to depend on any atheist to learn and study and study some more and to become fluent in Greek and Hebrew yourself. Then just do the research yourself and find out what manuscripts are the best ones and put together yourself what you think the original texts said.

Option #2: Or, you can thank God that He used men to analyze, decode, and finally give to us very reputable, trustworthy translations in many languages so that peoples throughout the world can read God's Word in a way they can easily understand.

Option #3: Or, you can bypass all of the hard work and the reality that God used ordinary men to preserve His Word, and you can make the easy statement that the KJV is God's gift of inspiration to the world. Then you can villify all the other translations and call them the work of the Devil (not sure you do this? but many KJVers do!).

For me, I am sticking with Option # 2. ;):D
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#91
LOL!

Option #1: You do not have to depend on any atheist to learn and study and study some more and to become fluent in Greek and Hebrew yourself. Then just do the research yourself and find out what manuscripts are the best ones and put together yourself what you think the original texts said.

Option #2: Or, you can thank God that He used men to analyze, decode, and finally give to us very reputable, trustworthy translations in many languages so that peoples throughout the world can read God's Word in a way they can easily understand.

Option #3: Or, you can bypass all of the hard work and the reality that God used ordinary men to preserve His Word, and you can make the easy statement that the KJV is God's gift of inspiration to the world. Then you can villify all the other translations and call them the work of the Devil (not sure you do this? but many KJVers do!).

For me, I am sticking with Option # 2. ;):D
So how can I tell if the word "you" is really means you or whether it's proleptic you pointing to a group of people 2000 years in the future?
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#92
So how can I tell if the word "you" is really means you or whether it's proleptic you pointing to a group of people 2000 years in the future?
I don't follow your question, so you will have to elaborate - !!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#93
I don't follow your question, so you will have to elaborate - !!
(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

An futurist original language person told me that the "you" in that verse wasn't referring to the 12 disciples that Jesus was talking to because the "you" is a propletic you and that really means that "you" is some group of people in the distant future.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#94
Here's another example of a person picking and choosing Hebrew definitions because the English doesn't promote this persons belief. So how do I know if God meant "they would seek him early" or if "they would seek him earnestly"?

(Hos 5:15) I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

The text says, "I will go to My place, TILL they acknowledge their offence..." then goes on to say, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me early / earnestly [H7836]".

H7836 -


7836 [e]
yə·ša·ḥă·run·nî.
יְשַׁחֲרֻֽנְנִי׃
they will earnestly seek Me
V‑Piel‑Imperf‑3mp | 1cs, Pn

[and]

H7836 -
shachar: to look early or diligently for
Original Word: שָׁחַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shachar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-khar')
Definition: to look early or diligently for

[and]

diligently (1), diligently seek (1), diligently seeks (1), earnestly seek (1), searched diligently (1), seek (2), seek me diligently (1), seek you earnestly (1), seek your earnestly (1), seeking (1), seeks you diligently (1).


[quotes taken from BibleHub]

____________

This is only a PART of the reason I keep saying they will "seek" Him early in the trib, and that even Ezekiel 39:7 (which "war" I believe corresponds to the SECOND SEAL "wars" [Rev6] EARLY in the trib yrs and paralleling the wording found also in Genesis 45:1[6],[46:2] in the SECOND YEAR of "Joseph's 7-yr famine"), but that a major IMPETUS that brings them to their Messiah is the event of "our Rapture"... and FOLLOWING which, is when they [many of them, not all] come to faith, and then the passages speaking of the trib yrs spell out what will take place from that point on... etc etc...)
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
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#95
(Mat 10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

An futurist original language person told me that the "you" in that verse wasn't referring to the 12 disciples that Jesus was talking to because the "you" is a propletic you and that really means that "you" is some group of people in the distant future.
LOL! Good one! Well, my view: Jesus was talking to the 12 disciples and that is what is meant by the text: that is the interpretation. The text can also give us principles on how to do evangelism - that is - application for us today.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#96
Here's another example of a person picking and choosing Hebrew definitions because the English doesn't promote this persons belief. So how do I know if God meant "they would seek him early" or if "they would seek him earnestly"?

(Hos 5:15) I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

The text says, "I will go to My place, TILL they acknowledge their offence..." then goes on to say, "IN THEIR AFFLICTION, they will seek Me early / earnestly [H7836]".

H7836 -


7836 [e]
yə·ša·ḥă·run·nî.
יְשַׁחֲרֻֽנְנִי׃
they will earnestly seek Me
V‑Piel‑Imperf‑3mp | 1cs, Pn

[and]

H7836 -
shachar: to look early or diligently for
Original Word: שָׁחַר
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: shachar
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-khar')
Definition: to look early or diligently for

[and]

diligently (1), diligently seek (1), diligently seeks (1), earnestly seek (1), searched diligently (1), seek (2), seek me diligently (1), seek you earnestly (1), seek your earnestly (1), seeking (1), seeks you diligently (1).


[quotes taken from BibleHub]

____________

This is only a PART of the reason I keep saying they will "seek" Him early in the trib, and that even Ezekiel 39:7 (which "war" I believe corresponds to the SECOND SEAL "wars" [Rev6] EARLY in the trib yrs and paralleling the wording found also in Genesis 45:1[6],[46:2] in the SECOND YEAR of "Joseph's 7-yr famine"), but that a major IMPETUS that brings them to their Messiah is the event of "our Rapture"... and FOLLOWING which, is when they [many of them, not all] come to faith, and then the passages speaking of the trib yrs spell out what will take place from that point on... etc etc...)
Yeah, I guess same basic approach works here:

(1) Trust the editors of the KJV and take their "word" for it! (I like that pun!!)
or (2) Study it out oneself (no "propletic "you" there!) and do the hard work to see what the Hebrew meant in context

I will take number two because I take the original manuscripts and not the KJV as "inspired"
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#97
LOL! Good one! Well, my view: Jesus was talking to the 12 disciples and that is what is meant by the text: that is the interpretation. The text can also give us principles on how to do evangelism - that is - application for us today.
That was a prime example of someone who didn't like what the bible says so they used Greek and Hebrew dictionaries to mold into their own image.... sort like creating your own bible, an idol made with your own hands.

I can't do that because I'm bound by the exact wording of the KJV.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#98
Yeah, I guess same basic approach works here:

(1) Trust the editors of the KJV and take their "word" for it! (I like that pun!!)
or (2) Study it out oneself (no "propletic "you" there!) and do the hard work to see what the Hebrew meant in context

I will take number two because I take the original manuscripts and not the KJV as "inspired"
To say that a translator can come close to what God's actual intentions were for a word is really the height of stupidity. That puts them on par or equal to God.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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1,442
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#99
That was a prime example of someone who didn't like what the bible says so they used Greek and Hebrew dictionaries to mold into their own image.... sort like creating your own bible, an idol made with your own hands.

I can't do that because I'm bound by the exact wording of the KJV.
You already have your image; I am just making sure I don't make one! LOL!

Oh, I agree that some people use the Greek and Hebrew to just make the text say what they want: that is a big problem!
 
Nov 23, 2013
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You already have your image; I am just making sure I don't make one! LOL!

Oh, I agree that some people use the Greek and Hebrew to just make the text say what they want: that is a big problem!
Whatever bible we read directly forms the image of Christ and all of his doctrines in us for sure.