The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

That happens to be another thing I don't have to worry about... how well man kept records.
I don't (at the moment) remember the details of when that question was first brought to my attention but it was fairly early on. Probably before i even knew about speaking in tongues at all, and almost certainly before I knew about Azusa Street.

I came to the conclusion that it (truth &salvation) was about me and God independent of whatever man had to say about it in between.

I don't know if you're one of those who subscribes to the doctrine that God's word is ONLY in the bible, but if you are, your suggestion that we should trust man's record of history in order to construct or test doctrines is absurd.

And if you happen to be one who subscribes to the idea that God still speaks, and that the Holy Ghost will lead and guide us into ALL truth (not only that which is directly recorded in the bible as being only partial) then you could ask God yourself and find out that way.

Or you could just diligently seek God asking to be filled with the Holy Spirit (tarrying until he moves) and see what he actually gives. It will be the same Holy Ghost that he gave in Acts because THAT is the record of outpourings according to God, not man.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

You can but you cannot speak the mysteries directly to God that Paul says happens when you pray in tongues. Those mysteries spoken directly to God may not seem like it has value in your mind but it did to Paul and those who use the gift. It is God's method and plan, who are we to question it's logic?

From where you know that you are praying mysteries if you even dont know what you are praying. Some other Spirit can Use you for his purpose and you will not notice it.
And which mysteries I should pray to God, if I even do not notice them, because I dont know what I pray?
This is very Strange.

It is strange to the natural man. But God has a supernatural method. And he promised that if you ask, seek, and knock for the Holy Spirit He will not give you an evil spirit, serpent, or scorpion. Luke 11

I
I know I have Gods Spirit and I got from Him the gift to discerning spirits.
It seems to me that many open themselves for Strange Spirits and thinking it is Gods. f e. the so called Toronto blessing.

It does not require the gift of discerning of spirits to know when people are in the flesh such as barking nonsense. And if you think that ALL people who are speaking in tongues today are either deluded or have an evil spirit working in them, then you DO NOT have the gift of discerning of spirits you just have the natural inclination of skepticism and disdain.

Those people who got caught up in strange things in Toronto, were corrected by the main body of Charismatics and Pentecostals world wide. But the skeptics love to use them as an example of what pentecostals look like. It serves their false narrative. Those people who get caught up in things like laughing, barking, flopping, are just doing that out of their own minds and not under the control of any spirit. They have just convinced themselves to act stupid thinking that it means something when it doesn't. We usually call that being "in the flesh", doing things from your own mind and emotional hype. I don't believe there are ever any demon spirits involved. When a church has good leadership they will correct these things as soon as they pop up and it will not be a problem. I think this is one of the main reasons we have so much written about it in 1 Cor 12-14 because God knew that the church would need to refer to it to correct this foolishness. The word is profitable for correction.

And I don't doubt that you have the Spirit of God, or the Spirit of Christ, or the Holy Spirit or any other way you want to word it. All believers have the Spirit of God/Christ or they are none of His.

Well, however. I have written all in this thread, why I dont believe this teaching. There is nothing to add.
If I am wrong its fine. You can call me a scepticer, fine. Sometimes it is not false to be sceptic.
I trust Gods word, more then people talk, even if they do great miracles.
About discerning the spirits, I met Christians which have no problems to believe what them is talked, even it is Spiritism in an Christian cover.
Since I am believer, I could recognize if their is a wrong teaching ( spirit ) behind. Where others seems to me blind for, ore have not this gift. I dont know. When an Person claimes to be baptised with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues and in the same time defending the RCC doctrine, then I dont believe that this Person speak the truth. And if he can speak gentle and with good rhetoric and good Argumentation. The Spirit behind is false. And I see many evangelical believers have no Problem with this.
Well, I will not change it. Its a Sign of the time.

Need clarification: Are you saying that if one does not speak in tongues they do not have the Holy Ghost?

I believe that what you have described is called discernment. Not the Holy Spirit supernatural gift of discerning of spirits (1 Cor 12:10)

Having good discernment comes with age and experiences and learning human behavior and character. We normally think it is odd when others do not have good discernment because we expect them to learn it with wisdom and life lessons.

People often interpret 1 Cor 12:10 to be just good natural discernment at a level above other folks, but I do not think that is good hermeneutics of the context which is speaking about supernatural gifts. I believe that what Paul is referring to would be like the examples in the book of Acts of Peter addressing Ananias and Saphira, or Paul casting out the spirit of the woman who announce that "these men are the servants of God to show us the way of salvation" It sounded good but he discerned the evil spirit and cast it out. Or when Peter perceived that Simon was in the gall of bitterness and the bond of iniquity (I am not sure about that one, but it seems that Peter saw something in the spirit beyond just the foolish words of Simon.) In each of these there was a manifestation of the Spirit where the gift was used to SPEAK boldly for God and something happened as a result that caused all to see the power of the Holy Spirit in operation by the one who had the gift.

If all you do is recognize something is not right, or it does not sit well with you, and that is the end of it, well that is discernment but it is not the operation of a supernatural gift of the Spirit called discerning of spirits which would involve more of a public manifestation such as the examples I gave from the book of Acts.

The discerning of spirits in this context is not discerning the "spirit/attitude" or motive of a person. It is recognizing when demonic spirits are being manifest through someone and confronting it publicly. Bringing Glory to God on the spot as a result of operating in the supernatural gift. Ask for the gift, if the Lord knows you have faith to use it He will give it to you.

To give the simplest but most controversial answer "Yes", but it requires a little more clarification if a person gets technical on the wording.

In Acts they recognized that someone can be a believer and not yet have received the Holy Ghost, because they also recognized that 'believing' and 'receiving the Holy Ghost' are two separate things. The accounts in Acts where the play-by-play is given of people receiving the Holy Ghost, the difference between belief and receiving the Holy Ghost is clear.

Speaking in tongues is the way one person can tell when another person has received the Holy Ghost. (Even though that's not a popular doctrine in some groups).-Acts 10:44-46. And speaking in tongues is needed because that's the only thing recorded as being the spirit praying "if I speak in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth" -1 Corinthians 14:14. And: "God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" -John 4:23,24

Please let me know what you think about that (politely), and please read Acts 19:1-7

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Take note of the Word, "Desire".
For it is written, "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church (1 Corinthians 14:1-4)."

All those who have the Holy Spirit in them (Christians) can speak in tongues if they desire to do so. The gift of speaking in tongues is in their spirits already because they have the Fullness of the Holy Spirit in them. Praying in tongues is obligatory to all Christians but if you are a Christian and you have never speaking in tongues and you don't desire it in your heart, you will not speak in tongues. The LORD said, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6).

Speaking in tongues is very important in the life of all Christians. Look at what is does, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself, and he speaks mysteries." Edify means charging up yourself like a battery when it is been charged.
Glory to GOD.

It is strange to the natural man. But God has a supernatural method. And he promised that if you ask, seek, and knock for the Holy Spirit He will not give you an evil spirit, serpent, or scorpion. Luke 11

Your confusion is just getting deeper. When people are telling you that you don't make sense, it should be a wake-up call to you, not an encouragement that you're on the right track.

You can but you cannot speak the mysteries directly to God that Paul says happens when you pray in tongues. Those mysteries spoken directly to God may not seem like it has value in your mind but it did to Paul and those who use the gift. It is God's method and plan, who are we to question it's logic?

Its unknown logic. Makes me wonder ?

All believers pray in their new born again tongue prophets prophesying the word of God. . Those do not do not have the power in them to be heard on High. They have no what is called God given desire to be heard. Its a work of Christ working in us making out burden lighter .

He teaches us how to pray giving his prophets words by which they could cry out to be heard on high.. Like the ones given to David . In that way we pray his will be done on earth as it is revealed from heaven .

David speaking with his new tongues giving glory to him that does work in us.

Psalm 23 King James Version (KJV) The Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

Nothing could be further from the truth. One becomes saved the moment they receive the Holy Spirit. If one does not have the Holy Spirit abiding in their hearts they are not saved. There is no necessity for one to speak in tongues.

One can pretend to speak in tongues and one can pretend to be saved because the Holy Spirit is not present. One who is saved knows they have the Holy Spirit abiding in their hearts.

Jesus never said speak in tongues as an evidence of salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Brother, you know that all Christians before 1900 lack to speak in tongues, out of some cults?
Do you realy believe that God hold back this gift more then 1400 years, for to reveal it as an Split reason for whole christianity?

I
I know I have Gods Spirit and I got from Him the gift to discerning spirits.
It seems to me that many open themselves for Strange Spirits and thinking it is Gods. f e. the so called Toronto blessing.

Yes supernaturally hid in parables which without he spoke not through His Son, the apostle prophet Jesus..

The Holy Spirit He will not give you an evil spirit, serpent, or scorpion used to represent the spirit of Judgment. But a new tongue to preach the gospel as prophecy. It has the power to cast out demons as lying wonders. .


The spirit of judgement.. Those who fall backward as if bitten by a serpent with the false gospel. like that of the law of the fathers that followed the oral traditions as commandments of men making the word of God desolate.

Jesus working with the father called them false apostles, false prophets; a "brood of vipers".

Personally I would keep a social distance from some while they do fall backward in lying wonders and warn them. . And even after warning in the Bible it shows they refuse to believe prophecy (alone) and continual look for more and more wonders, over and over.

1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law (Isiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

The spirit of Judgement using the tribe Dan, with Dan representing God the unseen judge executing the letter of the law death .

The spirit of judgment falling back slain in the spirit is of another gospel, another teacher other that Christ in us..

Parentheses below (my addition)

Genesis 49:16-17 (ERV) “Dan will rule his people as one of the tribes of Israel. Dan (the spirit of judgement) will be like a snake at the side of the road. He will be like a dangerous snake lying near the path. That snake bites a horse’s foot, and the rider falls to the ground

Demonstrated with Jesus the I Am Showing the power of rebuke of the father . Neither Dan or Judas are used to describe the bride in the book of Revelation. The letter of the law "death" represented by the spirit of judgment will not be part of the new order.

John 18:4-6 King James Version (KJV) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Again The spirit of judgement. (His)

The sign that God has assigned to it as a warning. I would think would be looked at .Trusting in the lying wonder does not draw one closer to Christ who dwells in these earthen bodies.

God Wants to Help His People

Isaiah 28 :9-13 The people say, “Who does he think he is trying to teach and explain his message to? Does he think we are babies who were at their mother’s breast only a very short time ago? He speaks to us as though we were babies:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

So God will use this strange way of talking, and he will use other languages to speak to these people. In the past he spoke to them and said, “Here is a resting place. Let those who are tired come and rest. This is the place of peace.”

But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.
Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw.
Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.