Not By Works

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J

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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eternally-gratefull said:
So in your view. There are true osas believers and false OSAS believers (Also
Called free grace Or Licentious) correct?
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I think that's a fair summary of what my view is.
Although I don't say that every Freegrace believer is a false believer.

eternally-gratefull said:
and preacher will not name people can you name some free grace osas?
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11th hour and decontroversal.

They use 2 Timothy 2:13 to support their doctrine that you can even stop believing and you are still saved.

13if we are faithless,

he remains faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

This is in stark contrast to Calvinist OSAS which says the person who goes back to unbelief never believed unto salvation in the first place.
 
J

Judges1318

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preacher4truth said:
That isn't even what he is addressing. This isn't about "true" and "false" OSAS believers. There are differing camps, distinctions and beliefs about OSAS. He mentioned two distinct camps.
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It's true, the point is not if one OSAS camp is saved over and above the other.
You are right that it's about the stark contrast in doctrine between Calvinist OSAS and Freegrace OSAS.

For those following along, @eternally-gratefull has a more Calvinist leaning OSAS doctrine, while 11th hour and decontroversal are Freegrace OSASer's.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
And that is exactly where you and @preacher4truth agree.
This is your common ground.
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This is our common ground? How so?

Some may be whatever he said, but they still believe in OSAS so they are still true believers in OSAS. He's no authority on this issue to make baseless and subjective conclusions and definitions. Anyone who believes in OSAS is a true believer in it, no matter their distinctions.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
It's true, the point is not if one OSAS camp is saved over and above the other.
You are right that it's about the stark contrast in doctrine between Calvinist OSAS and Freegrace OSAS.
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You're correct, there is no person calling another persons salvation into question, as far as any person on here specifically. However, I do not consider the position of Free Grace Theology to be orthodox in some areas.

For those following along, @eternally-gratefull has a more Calvinist leaning OSAS doctrine, while 11th hour and decontroversal are Freegrace OSASer's.
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Could be true about the latter falling into said camp but I haven't paid attention to much of what they say. I don't believe EG falls into the former given his take on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 therefore I tend to see him leaning toward the latter camp.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
Calvinist OSAS: The 'believer' who lives in willful sin, or goes back to unbelief shows that he was never saved to begin with.

Freegrace OSAS: God's grace is so great that the saved person can even go back to unbelief and they are still saved no matter what.
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That pretty much sums it up. It's refreshing to see someone who knows what they're talking about for a change. ;)

For the record, the former would be Biblical and the latter would be license and Antinomianism, a false gospel in my personal opinion. Christ addressed the latter in Matthew 7:21-23.
 
Lion222

Lion222

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Ever get the feeling some threads will still be here long after we all are gone?
it's like watching a coin being tossed over and over and over and everyone arguing over if it will be heads or tails.
One day I look forward to that coin to landing on its third side, you know that narrow path around the edge right after Jesus shows up and calls it.
 
star

star

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Nov 8, 2017
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#146,528
Grace is from God and Grace is His to give. Without His grace none of us would have salvation. Why does His grace have to be divided between 1. Free. 2. Calvinistic grace.

There is only One Grace at that is the Grace of Almighty God and it is given to us and covers us
 
J

Judges1318

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Nov 16, 2019
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preacher4truth said:
This is our common ground? How so?
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You both agree with traditional OSAS teachings that say the true believer can not purposely live in sin or ever go back to unbelief. As opposed to Freegrace OSAS which says true believers can do that and remain saved.
 
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Judges1318

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preacher4truth said:
For the record, the former would be Biblical and the latter would be license and Antinomianism, a false gospel in my personal opinion. Christ addressed the latter in Matthew 7:21-23.
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Eternally-Gratefull is right there with you. He agrees that the person who lives in sin was never known by Jesus.

From what I've seen, your differences aren't in the matter of OSAS itself, but rather in the matters of election and predestination.
 
J

Judges1318

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Judges1318 said:
For those following along, @eternally-gratefull has a more Calvinist leaning OSAS doctrine, while 11th hour and decontroversal are Freegrace OSASer's.
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preacher4truth said:
Could be true about the latter falling into said camp but I haven't paid attention to much of what they say. I don't believe EG falls into the former given his take on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 therefore I tend to see him leaning toward the latter camp.
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He can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he is agreement with you that if a 'believer' is living in sin they are not saved to begin with. He has cited 1 John 3:6 before to make the point:

"6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." - 1 John 3:6

Freegrace on the other hand, as you know, says the true believer can purposely continue in their old life of sin and still be very much saved. I don't think he believes that for a second. Neither do you, of course. You two are on common ground here.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

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Jan 25, 2015
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#146,532
In error, when I hear the term OSAS I connect it to cheap grace.

In error, when some people hear Torah / obedience they connect it to works salvation.

We need to concede that we all have some further study to do. The ones that keep on judging one another, the Bible warns us if it is a false accusation you are guilty of the false accusation.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
You both agree with traditional OSAS teachings that say the true believer can not purposely live in sin or ever go back to unbelief. As opposed to Freegrace OSAS which says true believers can do that and remain saved.
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Nope.
 
J

Judges1318

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star said:
Why does His grace have to be divided between 1. Free. 2. Calvinistic grace.
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Because in Calvinism, God's grace is only given to people who have faith.
In Freegrace, God's grace is given to people who stop having faith.

star said:
There is only One Grace at that is the Grace of Almighty God and it is given to us and covers us
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God's grace is high, and wide, and deep but is confined to those who have faith.
But Freegrace says God's grace is boundless and not confined to any limitation of faith and even follows us back into unbelief if we so choose to go there.
So there is a definite distinction being made here between two graces of God. There isn't just one God's grace in this discussion.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Judges1318 said:
Eternally-Gratefull is right there with you. He agrees that the person who lives in sin was never known by Jesus.

From what I've seen, your differences aren't in the matter of OSAS itself, but rather in the matters of election and predestination.
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Nope, not according to his take on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11. In addition I don't subscribe to his gospel, so you're making some errors bro.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#146,536
Judges1318 said:
11th hour and decontroversal.

They use 2 Timothy 2:13 to support their doctrine that you can even stop believing and you are still saved.

13if we are faithless,

he remains faithful,

for he cannot disown himself.

This is in stark contrast to Calvinist OSAS which says the person who goes back to unbelief never believed unto salvation in the first place.
Click to expand...
I believe the second view as I believe it fits with 1 John and I am not Calvinist so I would not say it is a strictly Calvinist Belief. And unless I am Mistaken iBelieve The two you mentioned also believe that way
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

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Dec 28, 2016
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Judges1318 said:
He can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure he is agreement with you that if a 'believer' is living in sin they are not saved to begin with. He has cited 1 John 3:6 before to make the point:

"6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him." - 1 John 3:6

Freegrace on the other hand, as you know, says the true believer can purposely continue in their old life of sin and still be very much saved. I don't think he believes that for a second. Neither do you, of course. You two are on common ground here.
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Disagree yet again. You probably need to read his beliefs again. We don't believe the same things.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#146,538
preacher4truth said:
That isn't even what he is addressing. This isn't about "true" and "false" OSAS believers. There are differing camps, distinctions and beliefs about OSAS. He mentioned two distinct camps.
Click to expand...
let’s see
Judges1318 said:
I think that's a fair summary of what my view is.
Although I don't say that every Freegrace believer is a false believer.
Click to expand...
Oops
:D
 
J

Judges1318

Banned
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Nov 16, 2019
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preacher4truth said:
Nope, not according to his take on 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.
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He can set the record straight but I'm almost certain he believes the sinning person in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 was never saved to begin with.

preacher4truth said:
In addition I don't subscribe to his gospel...
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Which, as far as I've seen, involves matters of faith, election, and predestination, not the matter of the truly saved person being 1) forever and always saved, and 2) incapable of living in sin and unbelief again--the two things you agree with, too. But he can set me straight if I'm in error about what I think he believes.
 
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