Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

One taken = the wicked

The other left = The righeous

The scripture is speaking in comparison to the wicked person vs. the righteous, not two bodies for one person.

"At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

The harvesters are the angels. At the end of the age, the Lord will send out His angels and they will 'first' gather the weeds which represent the wicked. This is the 'one taken.' Then after that, the angels will gather the wheat and bring them into His barn, i.e. into the millennial kingdom.

So, it's not taking about the 'one taken and the other left' as the same person. And this event is not even speaking about the resurrection, but those who are gathered will be those who made it alive through the entire tribulation period. The angels will be gathering living people in this scripture. It is not referring to the gathering of the church.

...and last day resurrection...

They do return with Him. The body is dead in the grave, but their souls are with the Lord.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

The souls and spirits of the saints are presently in the New Jerusalem (Heb 12:1,22-24). When Christ comes "in the air" at the Resurrection/Rapture, He brings their souls and spirits with Him, joins them to their resurrected bodies, and takes them back to Heaven along with the raptured saints.

The saints are in Heaven because they have been justified by God -- declared to be righteous with the righteousness of Christ -- and based on the perfection of Christ and His perfect finished work of redemption. But they are still souls and spirits (see Acts 7). Therefore to be glorified, they need glorified, immortal, incorruptible bodies. That is God's plan of salvation for those who are in Christ. That the spirit, soul, and body be eternally blameless and perfect before God.

[...]And the opponents of the Rapture conveniently forget that the saints must be glorified, and receive incorruptible, immortal, and glorified bodies, before they enter Heaven for the Marriage of the Lamb. Therefore the Resurrection/Rapture is a single event before the Second Coming of Christ.

What about what is said in the following passage? Psalm 115:17 It is not the dead who praise the LORD, nor any who descend into silence.

The exact manner and order in which those who died before us, those who died in the Tribulation, and those still alive all the way up to the Rapture is somewhat immaterial. It is something that, to be honest, we don't know. Nor do we need to know, really. The Great Commission is what it is. What acts of obedience do we need to do differently depending on whether New Jerusalem descends to earth, vs. Jerusalem on earth is transformed into a New Jerusalem, or New Jerusalem is all figurative? Anything? So why obsess about it?

Also, the point which needs to be repeatedly brought up is, very few people contest that there is a Rapture. Of course the New Testament says that there is a Rapture. It is all about the timing that is in question.

In the OP you say glorification is a must BEFORE the dead can enter into heaven (for the marriage supper). You even emphasize it with bold (I've reemphasized it in greed bold).

These (Pre-Tribbers) present are trying to slip their rapture under the door without a title (Pre-Trib) as if we're all sitting ignorantly watching.

I agree, but it's important to be prepared. I believe in post-trib rapture. I have heard the full case for a pre-trib rapture, but I think it's unBiblical.

So from my perspective, I fear a little that when the rapture does not come when pre-tribbers expect it to, like when the great tribulation is in full blown mark of the beast mode, a lot of people are going to lose faith and fall away. I think this pre-trib doctrine will possibly contribute to the event known as the great apostasy of the church that allows the anti-Christ to be revealed as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:3:

In the OP you say glorification is a must BEFORE the dead can enter into heaven (for the marriage supper). You even emphasize it with bold (I've reemphasized it in green bold).

I see two who gave you a red disagree, who have no idea of what scripture teaches regarding this group event which includes the entire church dead and living and which takes place in close succession. Nor do many understand the definition of the word 'anastasis' translated as Resurrection. You'd think that when they read the part where it states that after the living in Christ will be changed and caught up to meet those who will have just resurrected in the air, that it is not something that happens individually over a long period of time, but will take place as a group event in an 'atomos' which is defined as a period of time to short to divide.

This passage was applicable to Sheol/Hades until the resurrection of Christ. It is no longer applicable, since all the OT saints are now in Heaven, awaiting their resurrection.

You left our a key phrase -- "...for the Marriage of the Lamb". All the saints must be glorified before the Marriage of the Lamb, since they will accompany Christ when He comes with His saints and angels, and they will all be glorious.

Right on. The Resurrection/Rapture is the CULMINATION of salvation. And this is really a truth that is hidden from too many Christians. It is the perfection of the saints that is God's ultimate plan for His children.

A GLORIOUS BODY AT THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE
For our conversation [CITIZENSHIP] is in Heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself. (Phil 3:20,21)

A PERFECT SOUL AND SPIRIT AT THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure. (1 John 3:1-3)

Matthew and Luke do mention two bodies...they say that in that day there will be two men and two women...one will be taken and the other left. I just take the position that these two men and two women are the SAME person not different people.

Two bodies is an assumption. By the way, it is not a secret gathering. It just that the event takes place in an amount of time that can't be divided. For all we know, at the time that the gathering takes place, an unbeliever could be having a conversation with his friend who is a Christian an see him disappear right before his eyes.

We can't just make up our own understanding of this, but we need to look at all related scriptures in order to come to a right conclusion. That fact there is no mention of two bodies is neither mentioned nor fits Jesus resurrection, which is our example. Jesus resurrected in the same body that He was crucified in, but immortal and glorified. It will be the same for all believers. The only difference is that, those who are still alive, because they are not dead, will just be changed immortal and glorified. Those who are alive at the time that the resurrection takes place will not experience physical death, but will be changed where they stand.

Christ was using the metaphor of "the last day" for the end-times. It is NOT a
24 hour period, just as "the hour" He spoke about is not a 60 minute period in this connection. The "last day" extends for over 1,000 years, and the "first resurrection" (the resurrection of the just) is separated from the "second resurrection" (the resurrection of the unjust) by over 1,000 years.

Therefore one needs to bring all relevant Scriptures together to understand these things. Also the first resurrection is in three phases, just like a Hebrew harvest.

Your attempt to make those who hold to a Pre-Tribulation Rapture as sneaky is unbecoming. Deal with the facts, and study the Bible carefully. No one "slips under the Rapture door" which means that you so not even understand the purpose of the Rapture.

One of the reasons for anything other than a pre-tribulation gathering of the church, is not understanding the underlying principle which Christ accomplished:

"But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."

Everything that God does is a legal process. And since Jesus has already satisfied God's wrath, it no longer rests upon those who believe. Therefore, the believer is not appointed to suffer God's wrath which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. To believe that Jesus is first going to put His bride through His wrath first and then gather her afterwards, is to not truly believe that Jesus suffered God's wrath on our behalf.



You misunderstand our position. Those who are watching and anticipating Christ's appearing, the blessed hope, our attitude is to be prepared for trials and persecution, even to death. Therefore, believers holding to a pre-trib belief would not be caught off guard nor throw our hands up and turn away from Christ. I'll speak for myself. If I was here and witnessed on the news a very charismatic politician establish a seven year agreement being made, I would know immediately who he was. I would know that the first seal had been opened. Our faith is not based on a pre-wrath gathering of the church, but is in Christ. We do however have faith in His promise and understand why He is going to appear to gather His church prior to His and the Father's wrath, which brings us back to the legal process of God's wrath having already been satisfied by Christ. Simply put, God's wrath has been satisfied for those who believe in His Son.