Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

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Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#81
LOL! I said I would not be back, but I couldn't let this one go!

If the author had intended for it to mean 490 days then he could have written it that way - but he wrote literally seventy sevens (weeks) shabua!

If Dino is beating a dead horse, you are beating the skeletal remains of the horse!
The fact remains the same, a week isnt a year, (Shabua) is the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:24 not (Shanah)

(Shabua/Week) (Shanah/Year)

Chester your beating a dead horse.


Daniel 9:24 clearly states (Seventy Weeks) not (Four Hundred Ninety Years)

If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written

(Four hundred and ninety years), simple

Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.

Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;

Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.

Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weekswere fulfilled.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
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#82
The fact remains the same, a week isnt a year, (Shabua) is the Hebrew word used in Daniel 9:24

(Shabua/Week) (Shanah/Year)

Chester your beating a dead horse.
Well, if I am beating a dead horse, then your horse has already decomposed, has enriched the soil, and now apple trees are growing out of that enriched soil, and the wind has blown the apples down on your head, but evidently they have not knocked any sense into you because you are still beating the ground with your rod!

LOL! You may interpret the weeks as weeks of days if you wish. That is OK.
But the text says "seventy weeks/sevens" and not "490 days"
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
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#83
Well, if I am beating a dead horse, then your horse has already decomposed, has enriched the soil, and now apple trees are growing out of that enriched soil, and the wind has blown the apples down on your head, but evidently they have not knocked any sense into you because you are still beating the ground with your rod!

LOL! You may interpret the weeks as weeks of days if you wish. That is OK.
But the text says "seventy weeks/sevens" and not "490 days"
The Hebrew text does not state (Sheba/Seven) anywhere, Pinocchio's nose is growing on that one!
 
May 30, 2020
8
1
3
#84
Truth7t7, Interesting topic, appreciate you bringing it up. There was a time when I shared your view, but thirty eight years have passed and I like to think my knowledge has increased do to further study. Following are some insights I shall post which I hope will broaden your understand along with others on this subject:

The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9
God’s Weekly Cycle

Since Jesus created the world, the first day of each week has aligned with the first day of Creation and the seventh day of each week has aligned with God’s Sabbath rest. (Genesis 2:1-3) Even though human beings may define a week as any period of seven days, God defines a week as a period of seven days that aligns with Creation’s week. (Exodus 20:8-11)

God created a new calendar for Israel at the time of the Exodus. (Exodus 12:2) This calendar is often called the Jubilee Calendar and it is based on God’s weekly cycle. God established a cycle of seven years so that each day of the week represented a year. To ensure the integrity of this cycle, God declared every seventh year dating from the Exodus was to be a Sabbath year of rest for the land. Israel entered Canaan in a Friday year (the 41st year since the Exodus) and their first full year in the Promised Land was a Sabbath year; much like Adam and Eve’s first full day of life was a Sabbath day. The Jubilee Calendar measures time in units of forty nine year cycles (seven weeks of years). When a forty-nine year cycle expired, the following year was declared a year of Jubilee. The year of Jubilee was a special year because debts were cancelled, slaves were set free, and all of the land was returned to the original owners for free. The year of Jubilee always fell on a Sunday year. It was counted as the fiftieth year of the outgoing Jubilee cycle and simultaneously, it was counted as the first year of the new incoming Jubilee cycle.

These facts about the Jubilee Calendar are important because the seventy weeks in Daniel 9 did not suddenly appear with a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Actually, the seventy weeks mentioned in Daniel 9 align with ongoing weekly cycles of years that began at the time of the Exodus. God did not grant 490 random years to Israel, but instead, God defined the 490 years as seventy weeks so that He could draw Israel’s attention back to the weekly cycles of years that Israel had long ignored. When Gabriel said to Daniel, “Seventy sevens are decreed for your people” his language was designed to redirect Israel’s attention to the Jubilee Calendar which included the release of slaves, Sabbath years of rest for the land every seventh year, and the restoration of the land to its original owners at no charge!

Consider the way that Gabriel broke down the seventy weeks in Daniel 9:25:

7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week = 70 weeks 49 years + 434 years + 7 years = 490 years

Gabriel expressed the seventy weeks as three segments of time because the first segment of seven sevens is a Jubilee cycle. This was a huge clue for the nation of Israel. The all important decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee! God wanted His people to anticipate that the land would be returned to the Jews at no charge and the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee. This alignment with the Jubilee Calendar was not a casual coincidence. God had exiled Israel to Babylon for seventy years because it had refused to observe the Jubilee Calendar!

Gabriel also told Daniel that Messiah would appear and begin His ministry exactly seven weeks plus sixty-two weeks (483 years) after the decree was issued. Then, in the middle of the following week of seven years (the seventieth week), Messiah would be “cut off” (disinherited), but not for Himself (Jesus would be cut off for sinners). When this information is properly assembled, perfect harmony springs from the sum of all of the parts! History says the all-important decree was issued in a year of Jubilee (457 B.C.) and exactly sixty-nine weeks later (A.D. 27), Jesus showed up on the banks of the Jordan River and John baptized Him. Jesus began his ministry in the fall of A.D. 27 (a Sunday year) and was crucified in the spring of A.D. 30, (a Wednesday year, in the middle of the seventieth week.) Four decrees were issued to rebuild and restore Jerusalem and 457 B.C. is the only one that occurred in a year of Jubilee.

Source: (Jesus Final Victory, by Larry Wilson, Chapter 4, The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9, pgs. 83-84) This commentary of Daniel and Revelation can be obtained in paper back of downloaded free online at www.wake-up.org should you wish to read the entire chapter.



 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
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#85
Ha! Who is Pinocchio? (You are awfully funny, by the way!)

Here is a link to information to Strongs # 7620 shabua which is used in Daniel 9:24-27: It shows clearly the word means "week/seven" and it can be weeks of days or of years.



http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/7620.html

Hebrew Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance)
Key Word Studies (Translations-Definitions-Meanings)
» H7620 «

#7620 שָׁבוּעַ shabuwa` {shaw-boo'-ah}
or שָׁבֻעַ shabua` {shaw-boo'-ah} also
(fem.) sh@bu`ah {sheb-oo-aw'}

properly, pass part of H7650 as a denom. of H7651; TWOT - 2318d; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
1a) period of seven days, a week
1a1) Feast of Weeks
1b) heptad, seven (of years)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years):—seven, week.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
  • #7620.
  • שָׁבוּעַ
  • shabua (988d); from 7651; a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week:—
  • NASB - seven(1), week(4), Weeks(5), weeks(14).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation — All rights reserved — http://www.lockman.org
AV - week 19, seven 1; 20
sevenEzekiel 45:21.weekGenesis 29:27, 28. Daniel 9:27, 27.weeksExodus 34:22. Leviticus 12:5. Numbers 28:26. Deuteronomy 16:9, 9, 10, 16. 2 Chronicles 8:13. Jeremiah 5:24. Daniel 9:24, 25, 25, 26; 10:2, 3.
—Exhaustive Concordance (KJV Translation Frequency & Location)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#86
Truth7t7, Interesting topic, appreciate you bringing it up. There was a time when I shared your view, but thirty eight years have passed and I like to think my knowledge has increased do to further study. Following are some insights I shall post which I hope will broaden your understand along with others on this subject:

The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9
God’s Weekly Cycle

Since Jesus created the world, the first day of each week has aligned with the first day of Creation and the seventh day of each week has aligned with God’s Sabbath rest. (Genesis 2:1-3) Even though human beings may define a week as any period of seven days, God defines a week as a period of seven days that aligns with Creation’s week. (Exodus 20:8-11)

God created a new calendar for Israel at the time of the Exodus. (Exodus 12:2) This calendar is often called the Jubilee Calendar and it is based on God’s weekly cycle. God established a cycle of seven years so that each day of the week represented a year. To ensure the integrity of this cycle, God declared every seventh year dating from the Exodus was to be a Sabbath year of rest for the land. Israel entered Canaan in a Friday year (the 41st year since the Exodus) and their first full year in the Promised Land was a Sabbath year; much like Adam and Eve’s first full day of life was a Sabbath day. The Jubilee Calendar measures time in units of forty nine year cycles (seven weeks of years). When a forty-nine year cycle expired, the following year was declared a year of Jubilee. The year of Jubilee was a special year because debts were cancelled, slaves were set free, and all of the land was returned to the original owners for free. The year of Jubilee always fell on a Sunday year. It was counted as the fiftieth year of the outgoing Jubilee cycle and simultaneously, it was counted as the first year of the new incoming Jubilee cycle.

These facts about the Jubilee Calendar are important because the seventy weeks in Daniel 9 did not suddenly appear with a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Actually, the seventy weeks mentioned in Daniel 9 align with ongoing weekly cycles of years that began at the time of the Exodus. God did not grant 490 random years to Israel, but instead, God defined the 490 years as seventy weeks so that He could draw Israel’s attention back to the weekly cycles of years that Israel had long ignored. When Gabriel said to Daniel, “Seventy sevens are decreed for your people” his language was designed to redirect Israel’s attention to the Jubilee Calendar which included the release of slaves, Sabbath years of rest for the land every seventh year, and the restoration of the land to its original owners at no charge!

Consider the way that Gabriel broke down the seventy weeks in Daniel 9:25:

7 weeks + 62 weeks + 1 week = 70 weeks 49 years + 434 years + 7 years = 490 years

Gabriel expressed the seventy weeks as three segments of time because the first segment of seven sevens is a Jubilee cycle. This was a huge clue for the nation of Israel. The all important decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee! God wanted His people to anticipate that the land would be returned to the Jews at no charge and the decree to rebuild and restore Jerusalem would occur during a year of Jubilee. This alignment with the Jubilee Calendar was not a casual coincidence. God had exiled Israel to Babylon for seventy years because it had refused to observe the Jubilee Calendar!

Gabriel also told Daniel that Messiah would appear and begin His ministry exactly seven weeks plus sixty-two weeks (483 years) after the decree was issued. Then, in the middle of the following week of seven years (the seventieth week), Messiah would be “cut off” (disinherited), but not for Himself (Jesus would be cut off for sinners). When this information is properly assembled, perfect harmony springs from the sum of all of the parts! History says the all-important decree was issued in a year of Jubilee (457 B.C.) and exactly sixty-nine weeks later (A.D. 27), Jesus showed up on the banks of the Jordan River and John baptized Him. Jesus began his ministry in the fall of A.D. 27 (a Sunday year) and was crucified in the spring of A.D. 30, (a Wednesday year, in the middle of the seventieth week.) Four decrees were issued to rebuild and restore Jerusalem and 457 B.C. is the only one that occurred in a year of Jubilee.

Source: (Jesus Final Victory, by Larry Wilson, Chapter 4, The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9, pgs. 83-84) This commentary of Daniel and Revelation can be obtained in paper back of downloaded free online at www.wake-up.org should you wish to read the entire chapter
Thanks for the response and your presentation of (Larry Wilson's) opinion on the subject.

The fact remains the same, the text states (Seventy Weeks) not (Four Hundred Ninety Years)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#87
Ha! Who is Pinocchio? (You are awfully funny, by the way!)

Here is a link to information to Strongs # 7620 shabua which is used in Daniel 9:24-27: It shows clearly the word means "week/seven" and it can be weeks of days or of years.



http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/7620.html

Hebrew Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance)
Key Word Studies (Translations-Definitions-Meanings)
» H7620 «

#7620 שָׁבוּעַ shabuwa` {shaw-boo'-ah}
or שָׁבֻעַ shabua` {shaw-boo'-ah} also
(fem.) sh@bu`ah {sheb-oo-aw'}

properly, pass part of H7650 as a denom. of H7651; TWOT - 2318d; n m

—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) seven, period of seven (days or years), heptad, week
1a) period of seven days, a week
1a1) Feast of Weeks
1b) heptad, seven (of years)

—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Properly passive participle of H7650 as a denominative of H7651; literally sevened, that is, a week (specifically of years):—seven, week.
—Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament)
  • #7620.
  • שָׁבוּעַ
  • shabua (988d); from 7651; a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week:—
  • NASB - seven(1), week(4), Weeks(5), weeks(14).
—NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation — All rights reserved — http://www.lockman.org
AV - week 19, seven 1; 20
sevenEzekiel 45:21.weekGenesis 29:27, 28. Daniel 9:27, 27.weeksExodus 34:22. Leviticus 12:5. Numbers 28:26. Deuteronomy 16:9, 9, 10, 16. 2 Chronicles 8:13. Jeremiah 5:24. Daniel 9:24, 25, 25, 26; 10:2, 3.
—Exhaustive Concordance (KJV Translation Frequency & Location)
Your link shows nothing more than "Opinions" of men, in lexicon's and concordance.

The fact remains the same, Gods word states "Seventy Weeks" not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
1,448
113
#89
Your link shows nothing more than "Opinions" of men, in lexicon's and concordance.

The fact remains the same, Gods word states "Seventy Weeks" not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"
שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ עַֽל־ עַמְּךָ֣ וְעַל־ עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע [וּלַחְתֹּם כ] (וּלְהָתֵ֤ם ק) [חַטָּאֹות כ] (חַטָּאת֙ ק) וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָזֹ֣ון וְנָבִ֔יא וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃

OK, so if you want to deal with what God's Word actually says: here it is -- Daniel 9:24 in the original Hebrew - Here is what Daniel actually wrote.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,320
1,448
113
#90
Your link shows nothing more than "Opinions" of men, in lexicon's and concordance.

The fact remains the same, Gods word states "Seventy Weeks" not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"
Actually, you are right - that link does show the opinions of men. But I will take their opinions over yours! LOL!

And actually I much prefer to stick with what God's Word says - see the Hebrew in the previous post!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,863
113
#91
Your link shows nothing more than "Opinions" of men, in lexicon's and concordance.

The fact remains the same, Gods word states "Seventy Weeks" not "Four Hundred Ninety Years"
The fact remains the same; you are ignoring genre.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#92
You never say what date?
Once again the OP shows the 70 weeks begin when a command to restore and build Jerusalem is given in the "Future" no date is given.

The 70th week will be seen when the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) is revealed in Jerusalem, and Proclaims to be Messiah God,

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at the revealing of this human man in Jerysalem, a "Future" Event no date given.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#93
Your provision of the Hebrew text above has no new value or meaning to the debate, none. :)

Daniel 9:24 remains the same, (Seventy Weeks) not (Four Hundred Ninety Years)

(Seventy/Shibiym) (Weeks/Shabuwa)

English Strong's Root & Transliterated

Seventy h7657 שִׁבְעִים shib`iym
weeks h7620 שָׁבוּעַ shabuwa`
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,863
113
#95
I'm not ignoring genre, God made male and female, is there another? :)
Wow!

You need to learn English far better if you're going to use it to discuss theology.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,663
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#96
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 have nothing to do with a command from Artaxerxes

The command to restore and build is future
Keep your eyes and ears open, the future command to rebuild Jerusalem is just around the corner
The clock starts ticking the moment the command is given. If the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is future than the 70 weeks hasn't even started yet.

Jerusalem was in fact restored and rebuilt so therefore the 70 weeks started at that time once the command was given, and this command, according to scripture is Artaxerxes. Ezra 7 writes about the command in detail.

If the 70 week prophesy in Daniel has nothing to do with Artaxerxes then who issued the command? The bible states explicitly that King Artaxerxes issued the command and the 70 weeks started at that time.

BTW, the restoration and rebuilding process took years to complete and not weeks.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
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#97
The clock starts ticking the moment the command is given. If the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is future than the 70 weeks hasn't even started yet.

Jerusalem was in fact restored and rebuilt so therefore the 70 weeks started at that time once the command was given, and this command, according to scripture is Artaxerxes. Ezra 7 writes about the command in detail.

If the 70 week prophesy in Daniel has nothing to do with Artaxerxes then who issued the command? The bible states explicitly that King Artaxerxes issued the command and the 70 weeks started at that time.

BTW, the restoration and rebuilding process took years to complete and not weeks.
Your claims are false

1. The command or building in Ezra 7 has nothing to do with Daniel 9:24

2. The bible dosent state the command of Artaxerxes started Daniels 70 weeks
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#98
The clock starts ticking the moment the command is given. If the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem is future than the 70 weeks hasn't even started yet.

Jerusalem was in fact restored and rebuilt so therefore the 70 weeks started at that time once the command was given, and this command, according to scripture is Artaxerxes. Ezra 7 writes about the command in detail.

If the 70 week prophesy in Daniel has nothing to do with Artaxerxes then who issued the command? The bible states explicitly that King Artaxerxes issued the command and the 70 weeks started at that time.

BTW, the restoration and rebuilding process took years to complete and not weeks.
You will closely note, the book of Ezra as seen below, was a fulfillment of Jeremiahs Prophecy, plain, clear, simple.

Ezra 1:1KJV
1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,663
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#99
Your claims are false

1. The command or building in Ezra 7 has nothing to do with Daniel 9:24

2. The bible doesn't state the command of Artaxerxes started Daniels 70 weeks
These are not my claims but rather what is stated in the bible. The bible explicitly states that the command of Artaxerxes started the Daniel's 70 week prophecy.

Again, if you interpret differently what is written, what exactly then started the 70 weeks? In a previous post you then state that the command to restore Jerusalem was in the future but in the OP you outlined what you believe has already taken place. So I ask you again, which one is it, is the 70 weeks been fulfilled or in your estimate it is a future event?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
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These are not my claims but rather what is stated in the bible. The bible explicitly states that the command of Artaxerxes started the Daniel's 70 week prophecy.

Again, if you interpret differently what is written, what exactly then started the 70 weeks? In a previous post you then state that the command to restore Jerusalem was in the future but in the OP you outlined what you believe has already taken place. So I ask you again, which one is it, is the 70 weeks been fulfilled or in your estimate it is a future event?
Once again the OP shows the 70 weeks begin when a command to restore and build Jerusalem is given in the "Future" no date is given.

The 70th week will be seen when the (Man of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist) is revealed in Jerusalem, and Proclaims to be Messiah God,

The 3.5 year tribulation starts at the revealing of this human man in Jerysalem, a "Future" Event no date given.