The absurdity and heresy of Preterism

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TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Dispensationalism contradicts scripture and creates embarassing problems. [...] They who were told by Jesus they would see this did not. Armies surrounding Jerusalem did not mean leave except that all left and it was really good.
Two DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEEs" (at wholly distinct time-slots). They personally "saw" the 70ad events (Lk21:12-24 ONLY).

This has to do with the "proleptic 'you'" ("all those in the future, of the same category").

Like the mayor of California making a writing to its citizens: "when you see the buildings rockin, take your leave and get on truckin!" with regard to the BIG EARTHQUAKE that is on the docket (that every Californian resident knows is expected, but not the "when" of it)... It would be silly for its citizens that only just moved to there some 100 years after the writing (say, moved there in 2020) to disregard the memo, thinking the "you" certainly could not have been addressed TO THEM. (*wrong*)

THAT's the "proleptic 'you'".

In the section of Luke 21:12-24, the "SEE-then-FLEE" indeed refers to when they saw Jerusalem compassed with armies... and they fled and that was good.

But in the Matthew 24 "SEE-then-FLEE" (completely DISTINCT), Jesus said specifically, "Therefore when you shall see the AOD [abomination SINGULAR] spoken of by Daniel the prophet [this must refer to the SINGULAR reference he made in Dan12:11 'the abomination [singular] which maketh desolate [be] SET UP [H5414]...'--and supplies a specific day-amounts], (whoso readeth, let him understand: ) THEN let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains..."

That is how "prophecy" works.

The "day-amounts" that were ATTACHED to the Daniel 12:11 reference (Jesus was making in Matt24) are also therefore somewhat attached to what the following verse had said re: Daniel himself "[thou shalt rest (in death)] and STAND IN THY LOT [that is, be resurrected ('to stand again on the earth')] at the END OF THE DAYS" (that is, "at the END of the DAYS" referred to in that Daniel 12 CONTEXT... and verse 11 is one of those references to "DAYS")... Daniel was nowhere to be SEEN ('resurrected' and 'standing in his LOT') anywhere near to the 70ad events! [that should be embarrassing to the Preterist-viewpoint, instead ;) ]

And Jesus was indeed in the role of Prophet at His first advent, so He was certainly authorized to do this, meaning, to prophesy. ;)

I already addressed some of the other ones.

[...] And these are embarassing for dispensationalists.
There's nothing "embarrassing".

Each of the items have been addressed more than adequately.

You simply disregard the consistent use of the "proleptic 'you'" used throughout Scripture (and especially the impact of its use in Matt24, which is a context involving a completely DISTINCT "SEE-then-FLEE" issue that is FAR-FUTURE to the one in Lk21:12-24's 70ad events, which DID HAPPEN just as Jesus had said).
 
Jan 17, 2020
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More abuse. But what can one expect from brethren who call the thinking of others “absurd” before one question is asked.
If you think like the blind, are you also blind?
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Both preterism and dispensationalism are wrong. Why because one system wont accept the literal level of scripture unless it suits their
argument and the other wont accept anything but the literal level unless it suits theirs. There seems to be a blindness in both camps.
This results in endless arguments and confusion. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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From this I conclude:

- you think that people who think differently than you are "foolish";
- you think that "true Christians" are those who think like you;
- you think that people who don't think like you don't take seriously the exhortations to prepare and wait;

None of this reflects well on you.
Really? Well I think those who outright reject Scripture as it is written are either unsaved or heading through the Great Tribulation. Believe me I can support my position with endless endless amounts of Scripture.

The preterists are full of excuses and they lack the real substantial understanding that comes with committed study of Scripture as it is written. Which leaves them vulnerable to the lies of the devil. And I am witnessing this happening right here and now!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,750
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Both preterism and dispensationalism are wrong. Why because one system wont accept the literal level of scripture unless it suits their
argument and the other wont accept anything but the literal level unless it suits theirs. There seems to be a blindness in both camps.
This results in endless arguments and confusion. Jesus said you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.
That is quite nonspecific sir. The truth is the truth, the narrow way is the narrow way, and the facts of history remain for all of us to see. And what I see is that the Lord did not destroy the army surrounding Jerusalem neither did He redeem Israel in 70 A.D. Which falsifies the preterist heresy beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Would anyone care to rebut what I've just said using only the Scripture and not their opinion?
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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maybe this has been discussed already,

but I think the phrase
in the spirit
occurs several places in the book of Revelation

example
Revelation 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit. Behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting on the throne

it doesn't seem to me like it would be an issue to say that the events described in the book are spiritual realities, not literal physical happenings.

comments?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Not at all. It contradictions Dispensationalism, that is true. But that was an invention of Darby promoted by Scofield. Dispensationalism contradicts scripture and creates embarassing problems. This generation cannot mean that generation. Soon does not mean within then next 2 millenia. They who were told by Jesus they would see this did not. Armies surrounding Jerusalem did not mean leave except that all left and it was really good. The list goes on and on. And these are embarassing for dispensationalists.
Is Matthew 24 the only chapter in the Bible that you know of? Because so far that's all you ever used. And trust me when I tell you it is not even close to being enough.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Really? Well I think those who outright reject Scripture as it is written are either unsaved or heading through the Great Tribulation.
Then you must hold an unbiblical view on the requirements for salvation.

Believe me I can support my position with endless endless amounts of Scripture.
I'm sure you can support your position, but you misrepresent the positions of others and attack caricatures of them. You can spare me your "Believe me" assertions though; they add nothing to the validity of your view.

The preterists are full of excuses and they lack the real substantial understanding that comes with committed study of Scripture as it is written. Which leaves them vulnerable to the lies of the devil. And I am witnessing this happening right here and now!
Right now you're witnessing people be vulnerable to the lies of the devil? Fascinating. And how, pray tell, is this supernatural insight occurring?

You're welcome to continue with your hyperbole, but I will be happy to point out the stupidity of it.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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maybe this has been discussed already,

but I think the phrase
in the spirit
occurs several places in the book of Revelation

example
Revelation 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit. Behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting on the throne

it doesn't seem to me like it would be an issue to say that the events described in the book are spiritual realities, not literal physical happenings.

comments?
I see them as both spiritual and literal. The problem lies in readers not being able discern between which parts are spiritual and
which are literal. Almost all of Revelation can be understood by knowing the O/T because God put it there in plain sight
and John had an incredible knowledge of it. The Holy Spirit used that knowledge to guide him in what to write down
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,750
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Then you must hold an unbiblical view on the requirements for salvation.


I'm sure you can support your position, but you misrepresent the positions of others and attack caricatures of them. You can spare me your "Believe me" assertions though; they add nothing to the validity of your view.


Right now you're witnessing people be vulnerable to the lies of the devil? Fascinating. And how, pray tell, is this supernatural insight occurring?

You're welcome to continue with your hyperbole, but I will be happy to point out the stupidity of it.
Fascinating but true, geniune Christians know the counterfeits as well know as the Apostle John did back then. And they absolutely know the wiles of the devil and false doctrine. And you know as well as I that it IS INDEED supernatural discernment!

And for you, as of yet you have not posted ONE SOLITARY VERSE! Why? Because your own opinion is what matters. And your endless criticism is vapid, feedble, and the words of a mere man.

The truth is....the premillenial pretrib commentation BLEW THE PRETERISTS and Idealists out of the water. It was truly a rout. But thats the way it goes when you foolishly contend with the Word.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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That is quite nonspecific sir. The truth is the truth, the narrow way is the narrow way, and the facts of history remain for all of us to see. And what I see is that the Lord did not destroy the army surrounding Jerusalem neither did He redeem Israel in 70 A.D. Which falsifies the preterist heresy beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Would anyone care to rebut what I've just said using only the Scripture and not their opinion?
I have already explained that the events of AD70 were a TYPE of a final judgement of the nation and that Preterests have mistakenly
viewed the type to be the real thing. In the same way many see modern Israel to be start of the of the Millenial kingdom
instead of preparation that final judgement.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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I would throw every creed in the trashcan that doesn't support premillennialism. Without the slightest hesitation.
Dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture is deception.

The claimed rapture is nothing more than the second coming of Jesus Christ, the ole bait and switch.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I have already explained that the events of AD70 were a TYPE of a final judgement of the nation and that Preterests have mistakenly
viewed the type to be the real thing. In the same way many see modern Israel to be start of the of the Millenial kingdom
instead of preparation that final judgement.
I agree it was a judgment. Possibly a type also. But one of the primary reasons for the GT is the ultimate final redemption of Israel. Lets not forget that. Where we disagree is about the Rapture. I firmly believe that Scripture is quite clear that we will not experience Gods wrath during the GT.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Dispensationalism and a pre-trib rapture is deception.

The claimed rapture is nothing more than the second coming of Jesus Christ, the ole bait and switch.
Well, keep studying. Gods wrath does not fall upon the present day Church, His Bride. So says Paul and Jesus.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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This argument was settled and proven 2000 years ago when Christ came. The proof is with the Jews understanding of scripture. The Jews took scripture literally so they rejected Christ and his kingdom, killed Jesus and continued looking for a physical kingdom that was never going to come.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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This argument was settled and proven 2000 years ago when Christ came. The proof is with the Jews understanding of scripture. The Jews took scripture literally so they rejected Christ and his kingdom, killed Jesus and continued looking for a physical kingdom that was never going to come.
Nope. The Jews rejected Jesus because they DID NOT take the Bible literally. They should have known of the arrival of their Messiah exactly 173,880 days from the command of Artaxerxes Longimanus in 445BC.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Nope. The Jews rejected Jesus because they DID NOT take the Bible literally. They should have known of the arrival of their Messiah exactly 173,880 days from the command of Artaxerxes Longimanus in 445BC.
Keep dreaming lol. The Jews were looking for a physical kingdom just like you are.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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I have already explained that the events of AD70 were a TYPE of a final judgement of the nation and that Preterests have mistakenly
viewed the type to be the real thing. In the same way many see modern Israel to be start of the of the Millenial kingdom
instead of preparation that final judgement.
Actually modern day Israel is a sign of both final judgment and the millennium. There needs to be a nation and a Temple to set the stage for the GT.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Keep dreaming lol. The Jews were looking for a physical kingdom just like you are.
Just like I am? False. Christians have a heavenly inheritance. Jacob inherits the land, fulfilling Gods covenant to Abraham and David.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Just like I am? False. Christians have a heavenly inheritance. Jacob inherits the land, fulfilling Gods covenant to Abraham and David.
Yes you're looking for a physical kingdom where Jesus literally sits on David's throne in that God forsaken place they call Israel.