"Not by works" - false!

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mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#121
Apr 7, 2014
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#121
DBurrage said:
I'm not saying that Christ's work isn't enough, I'm saying that we have a duty to keep God's commandments.
If we continue to sin after receiving grace, Jesus' sacrifice will not cover these sins:

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".
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You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?
 
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DBurrage

Banned
#122
Apr 21, 2020
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#122
gb9 said:
you accused me of trying to undermine your message.

well, when you say stuff like this, refuse to answer questions, you undermine your own message.

you have no authority nor will you even mention how many times you read the Bible, so your lecturing is invalid.
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You're right, I have no authority.
Nor have I claimed to have any.

Neither of us have any authority as neither of us are more favoured by God to deliver his message.

You're right, I won't say how many times I have read the Bible, as I do not believe it to be relevant?
Are you saying that the 'strength' of your faith is measured on how many times one has read the Bible?
Is somebody who has read the Bible 10 times a 'better' Christian than somebody who has read it 5 times?
 
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DBurrage

Banned
#123
Apr 21, 2020
621
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#123
mailmandan said:
You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?
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Mate, I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.

We are reconciled with God through Christ, AND we have a duty to not deliberately sin, and if we do continually deliberately sin after receiving grace then Jesus' blood will not cover that sin

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Now how many more times would you like me to say that...
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#124
Apr 7, 2014
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#124
DBurrage said:
Mate, I'm not going to repeat myself endlessly.

We are reconciled with God through Christ, AND we have a duty to not deliberately sin, and if we do continually deliberately sin after receiving grace then Jesus' blood will not cover that sin

Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

Now how many more times would you like me to say that...
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You need to define your terms - “deliberately continue sinning.” I defined my terms in posts #113 and #115. Are you teaching sinless perfection?
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
#126
May 19, 2020
3,050
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#126
DBurrage said:
With all due respect, this sounds like terminological inexactitude and, frankly, fluffy nonsense.

Of course it's difficult not to sin, as we are not perfect.
That's not to say that we should not try, or that we should not want to sin.

Are you saying that we shouldn't make a conscious effort to love our neighbor as ourselves, for instance?
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If you find my post "fluffy nonsense"...I don't have a problem with that.

I have been saved...God has forgiven my sins..my slate is clean in the Lords eyes.......why would I try to love my n
DBurrage said:
With all due respect, this sounds like terminological inexactitude and, frankly, fluffy nonsense.

Of course it's difficult not to sin, as we are not perfect.
That's not to say that we should not try, or that we should not want to sin.

Are you saying that we shouldn't make a conscious effort to love our neighbor as ourselves, for instance?
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It may sound like fluffy nonsense to you....,but I have my own personal relationship with God.

I was born again 28 yrs ago.....like I have said...I ask God to help me love my neighbour as myself.

How can I love my neighbour in my own strength...when I'm born again?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#127
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
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#127
DBurrage said:
Please stop making the same point over and over.

See posts #4 and #7.
We are not justified by the law - correct.

But are you saying that Christians do not need to keep God's commandments?
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Are you saying we need to keep the sabbath?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#128
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#128
DBurrage said:
2 Peter 2:1
"But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves".


I would like to contend that the notion that salvation is given to us ONLY in return for believing in Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior is INCOMPLETE.


We ARE asked to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation:
Acts 16:30-31
" "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household" ".


HOWEVER, Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning, and we are warned that if we deliberately/knowingly continue in sin following the acceptance of Jesus into our lives, Jesus' sacrifice will NOT cover these sins:
Hebrews 10:26
"Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins".

This of course makes sense.
If we SAY we follow Jesus but continue rebelling against God, then are we REALLY following Jesus?
Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter".


So then, we must accept Jesus into our lives and believe in him.
AND we must also stop rebelling against God, even after we have accepted Jesus into our lives.


What I have said may be obvious to many, but all the time I hear excuses from Christians to justify their sinning:
"Nobody is perfect" - nobody has said that you are
"God will forgive me" - actually, according to Matt 7:21, if you continue to sin after accepting Jesus, Jesus' sacrifice won't cover your sin (verse above)
"We're human, and humans are fallible" - typical excuse!
"It is impossible not to sin, as we are not perfect" - this article sums it up very well: https://www.gotquestions.org/go-and-sin-no-more.html
Have you heard these kind of excuses too?


Christians have no excuses for deliberately/knowingly sinning:
1 John 1:6
"If, then, we say that we have fellowship with him, yet at the same time live in the darkness, we are lying both in our words and in our actions".
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= salvation only for the self-righteous.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#129
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#129
DBurrage said:
You've agreed with another user, who said that Hebrews 10:26 only refers to apostasy.

I believe that it has been interpreted this way due to the widely held belief that all we need is faith in Jesus to be saved.
Yes, we are saved in our faith in Christ, but Jesus repeatedly told people to stop sinning.

In reading the Bible, God has not communicated to me that Hebrews 10:26 only means apostasy.
God has told me that we are not perfect just because we have decided to follow Jesus, and that we still sin.
God has told me that deliberately sinning, any sin, will not be covered by Jesus' blood.
Click to expand...
In as few words as possible, what is Apostacy? (not a trick question).
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#130
May 22, 2020
403
127
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#130
DBurrage said:
If you think that Christians can behave as they wish, then that represents your understanding of the Bible.
Is this what you think?
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The question is not phrased well. Everyone behaves as they wish. Christians tend to "wish" to obey God so they do so, though imperfectively.

DBurrage said:
Are you saying that you no longer sin?
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No, I sin.

You are the one that posted Hebrews 10:26 For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate] .... then interpreted by saying that any willful sin disqualifies one from the sacrifice for sin. You, I believe, say you have willfully sinned and therefore using your definition of the verse seem to say you have been disqualified to participate in the sacrifice for sin. The implication is, since we all willfully sin, that no one is saved using your interpretation. I think you may qualify your meaning to adjust for this implication.
(I, on the other hand, say the 4 commentators believe that the sin in question is apostrophy (turning from faith) and this seems to fit the verse better ... otherwise, no one is saved via you interpretation.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#131
Apr 21, 2020
621
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#131
mailmandan said:
You need to define your terms - “deliberately continue sinning.” I defined my terms in posts #113 and #115. Are you teaching sinless perfection?
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I don't need to define anything, I'm simply telling you what God has put in me.

Christians should make a conscious effort not to rebel against God in any way.

Put in this way you might say "well that's obvious".
So why, when it comes to Hebrews 10:26, do you say it's only apostasy?
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#132
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#132
mailmandan said:
You basically are saying that Christ’s finished work of redemption is not enough if you are adding commandment keeping and sinless perfection to salvation through faith. Are you using Hebrews 10:26 to support sinless perfection?
Click to expand...
Nobody here is supporting sinless perfection.
 
Fastfredy0

Fastfredy0

Banned
#135
May 22, 2020
403
127
43
#135
DBurrage said:
If we continue to deliberately sin after receiving grace, Jesus' blood will not cover these sins
Click to expand...
All Christians continue to deliberately sin after receiving grace. Thus you contend that no one is saved unless you can better qualify what you mean by "deliberately sin". The dictionary would define "deliberately sin" as 'intentionally disobey God'.

Aside: There are some (very, very few) Christians that claim they never sin.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#136
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
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#136
The lawyers are popping up like weeds.

(Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law)


(Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith)

(Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.)

^^
The death knell for the lawyers
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#137
Apr 7, 2014
25,457
13,396
113
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#137
DBurrage said:
I don't need to define anything, I'm simply telling you what God has put in me.

Christians should make a conscious effort not to rebel against God in any way.

Put in this way you might say "well that's obvious".
So why, when it comes to Hebrews 10:26, do you say it's only apostasy?
Click to expand...
You need to read Hebrews 10:26 in context.
 
D

DBurrage

Banned
#138
Apr 21, 2020
621
176
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#138
azamzimtoti said:
The lawyers are popping up like weeds.

(Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law)


(Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith)

(Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.)

^^
The death knell for the lawyers
Click to expand...
You're accusing anybody who thinks that Christians should make a conscious effort to not rebel against God as trying to emulate those under Mosaic law.

I would respectfully advise you to exercise diligence and put greater thought into your words.
 
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