THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

It makes salvation depend on them?

I do not give much thought to Johnny Mac and/or his followers.

Do you think lordship salvation preachers enslave new converts to works as defined by them in order to extract money fom them and fatten their bellies?

I do not give much thought to Johnny Mac and/or his followers.

Do you think lordship salvation preachers enslave new converts to works as defined by them in order to extract money and fatten their bellies?

Do you think lordship salvation preachers enslave new converts to works as defined by them in order to extract money fom them and fatten their bellies?

Only God knows. I think many are sincere but are not genuinely saved.

So lordship Salvationists who trust in works to be saved aren't yet saved till their last breath? And they cannot have the assurance and joy of salvation in this life on earth?

Do you mind caring for their followers to be delivered from being deceived?

How much degree of fruit is required in order to prove your faith isn't feigned?

Only God knows. I think many are sincere but are not genuinely saved.

It doesn't work like that, and the way you're questioning and nitpicking every little thing the aimless way you're doing, and never coming to a point of your own, kind of makes me question your understanding of what being saved truly is anyway. It seems a lot of time when I see this "works do not save" thing come up here it often times is not about works saving or not, it's more about does the believer ever have to do works. That's been my experience anyway, but I'm just going to speak about if works save. To start anyway.

Our works have NOTHING AT ALL to do with salvation, we are born fallen sinners that outside of Gods grace and direct revelation, we have no hope what so ever of even identifying what our main problem this existence is, let alone even be able to imagine any hope of repairing that problem. That problem of course being our spiritual disconnection with our Creator, severed and us born with a dead spirit. Without our Creator letting us know this, there would be no way for us to ever even conceive we were missing spirit, all we had to gauge with was the flesh. So this fruit, faith, proof question just misses the forest for the trees in my opinion. When we are saved, or when one is "born again" as our Savior puts it, through His atonement on the cross, because He who had never transgressed the Fathers will, or sinned. He never earned death for Himself, well He laid down His life and not only accepted the will of the Father up to death on the cross, but He also did so knowing that on that cross was were the Father would crush Him with the wrath that abide on all man kinds heads to make THE Way for men to be reconciled back to Him. So now when we are granted repentance, and our Savior draws us into truth, our dead spirits are resurrected back to life, and then reconciled to His Spirit, now making us whole again as we were created to, and forever indwelling us giving us a whole new life that now desires Him and righteousness, and now as whole new men and women, we WANT to go glorify our King as we are called to do and tell the others what we were blind to, as we are also commanded.

So do works save us? No of course not, there is nothing you can do to save yourself. Even if you have a "I choose you Jesus" conversion, guess what? He gets the credit and glory for that choice too. It's NOTHING we do, least any man can boast, but I do testify right now by my words, and by my actions and choices everyday, when this happens, you will work, just by the change in nature you have people will see from the outside. Something as small as the stone faced guy we saw everyday that never even looked my way, now he smiles and waves every time we see each other, he even helped me get my groceries inside during the rain one day. Those kinds of "works" will happen in anyone that knows Jesus in truth. I testify anyway. That's the power I know and see in His children.

Am I to seek them out and chase after them?

Lordship salvation theory teaches the following: That one's salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the life we live. It states:

"Submission to the will of God, to Christ’s lordship, and to the guiding of the Spirit is an essential, not an optional, part of saving faith" (EPHESIANS, p. 249).

"Salvation isn't the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it's the fruit of actions, not intentions. There's no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile...The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny" (Hard to Believe, p. 93).

The Word of God calls it a lie in Romans 4:5... "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

You make some big leaps here from what I stated, consequently I am not sure how to respond except to say......

My overall point is that Lordship Salvation according to the definition you used in your OP, veers away from the simple Gospel as

Jesus is Saviour and adds biblical conditions to salvation, when in fact salvation is a gift.. not based on our promises or commitments.

Mark 16:15: "He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation".

You believe that?

You misunderstand the quotes you give, and in turn misrepresent them.



Nothing in the quotes you’ve provided contradict the text of Scripture you’ve given.

On the internet we are going into the world, as this is a site with an international fellowship. Should I only speak to people after I have ascertained that they are under what you consider to be the deception of Lordship salvation, in order to try to enlighten them? Perhaps that is your calling, but why would you want me to take it up when it is not mine?

So you don't consider the theory a deception?

Do you think lordship salvation preachers use the theory to enslave new converts to works as defined by them in order to extract money and fatten their own bellies?