Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Not really. Yet I can understand where one may trouble with fully taking in Christ's forgiveness for oneself. The understanding of God's forgiveness through Jesus needs to move from just knowing in the head and go to the heart. This is what I desire to grasp in my heart and core of my being His grace, love and forgiveness.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
First of all, I do not expect you to AGREE with me, but to CEASE calling less than truly Born Again Assumers to ALSO INCLUDE TRUE OSAS Believers. Their Supposed definition of OSAS, is as BAD AS YOURS.
You are a BULL in a China shop, thrashing about and BREAKING EVERY THING with YOUR ASSUMED Falsehoods. Like I said, YOU do not know the FIRST THING about what WE WHO TRULY BELIEVE IN OSAS, who teach OBEDIENCE is product of LOVING HIM with the same kind of LOVE that HE POURED INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5, that is TOTALLY separated from SALVATION that happened WHEN WE FIRST BELIEVED.
However, YOU, seem to have a VENDETTA against OSAS while using a FALSE DEFINITION of what OSAS MEANS, that YOU insist that is what we mean. YOUR OPINION of what OSAS means, which is FAULTY as a DELIBERATE LIE, JUST TO MAKE US LOOK BAD.
Where did you get to GIANT FIBS about our BELIEFS, actually come from. YOU CERTAINLY DID NOT GET THEM FROM US?
Your GIANT FIBS, are not limited to the following, but are a CONTINUOUS Fabricated INSULTS about our Beliefs.
And OSAS seems to be an easy path to God.
No suffering in the flesh is required,
no righteous living,
no cessation from sin.
OSAS is that WIDE GATE spoken of in Matthew 7:13, and many there truly be that go in there at.
I had to get my frustration out, and I see YOU finally ask a serious question, so I will answer that in my NEXT POST.
No.
What has been accomplished at the cross is the redemption of the believers sins that are past (in the believers life prior to coming to the knowledge of the truth).
God has set forth Christ to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST (Romans 3:25).
Please don’t give the “how many of your sin were future when Christ died” nonsense.
What has been accomplished at the cross is the redemption of the believers sins that are past (in the believers life prior to coming to the knowledge of the truth).
God has set forth Christ to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST (Romans 3:25).
Please don’t give the “how many of your sin were future when Christ died” nonsense.
heb 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
____
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
_________
23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST
_________
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
_________
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
_____________
If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6
_______
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
________
We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus
_______
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
____________
Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
____
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(vs 10 "we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all)
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
_________
23-23Not a warning but encouragement to His children who are sanctified and perfected forever through CHRIST
_________
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
_________
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
_____________
If you truly believe this is saying willful sin will make you lose the once and for all forever sacrifice of sin, you must also believe if you sin once on purpose you lost salvation forever.... He sat down, also read hebrews 6
_______
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
________
We are His children... not adversaries.... like vs 13 who He will make His footstool AFTER SITTING DOWN and perfecting us forever through Jesus
_______
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
____________
Romans 5:10-11
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
This is made even more clear by the time you get to vs. 26 where the author says this forever sacrifice that doesn't need to be repeated is no longer available to the person who willfully goes back to his life of sin after being sanctified by faith in the forever sacrifice. It's right there in easy to read print. I couldn't in good conscience tell people it doesn't really say that, or that it doesn't really mean what it says.
-
1
- Show all
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ...if by any means I MIGHT attain unto the resurrection of the dead. NOT AS THOUGH I HAD ALREADY ATTAINED, either were already perfect: but I follow after...Brethren, I count NOT myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do...I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:8-14).
-
1
- Show all
If they really are hurt.
But outright arrogance is to be punished by shunning - 1 Corinthians 5:1-12
Turn them over to the flesh and the devil so that the flesh can be crucified and they can MAYBE be saved when Jesus comes back, if they cooperate and come to their senses. Otherwise they will not be saved.
But outright arrogance is to be punished by shunning - 1 Corinthians 5:1-12
Turn them over to the flesh and the devil so that the flesh can be crucified and they can MAYBE be saved when Jesus comes back, if they cooperate and come to their senses. Otherwise they will not be saved.
-
1
- Show all
No sir.
No assumed falsehood. That’s a falsehood you assume about me. Where’s the Agape love in saying this to me? I give you the benefit of the doubt that your sincere in your belief, but yet you cast abominable language at me. Beware, friend. God sees all.
I have no personal vendetta against anyone here. We are chatting about Bible doctrine. And by humility and a respectful loving exchange can we come to unity, not by biting one another and provoking one another.
My doctrine is not mine, but God’s. This is where I get my knowledge of the error of OSAS (as how some teach it).
No assumed falsehood. That’s a falsehood you assume about me. Where’s the Agape love in saying this to me? I give you the benefit of the doubt that your sincere in your belief, but yet you cast abominable language at me. Beware, friend. God sees all.
I have no personal vendetta against anyone here. We are chatting about Bible doctrine. And by humility and a respectful loving exchange can we come to unity, not by biting one another and provoking one another.
My doctrine is not mine, but God’s. This is where I get my knowledge of the error of OSAS (as how some teach it).
-
1
- Show all
There's no contradiction because it is works of the law that are being distinguished when no works are required. Works of faith are not works of the law, nor are they simply good works. There is no faith without corresponding works,
I have no idea what your latter accusation is supposed to be addressing.
I have no idea what your latter accusation is supposed to be addressing.
Who's said anything about earning salvation? If one thinks their works are earning their salvation than they are outside the bounds of Biblical faith. You speak of salvation and sanctification as two separate things, yet I don't see such a distinction Biblically as those who are being saved are also being sanctified. All these theological distinctions are artificial constructs of men.