Prophecy vs mystery: Since the world began

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Jan 25, 2015
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#22
The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?

A secret is not spoken correct? They must be referring to two distinct things.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#23
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings is to search out a matter.
Yeah, the gospel of grace revealed to Paul was indeed a secret, only to be revealed in the "but now" period.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#24
Yeah, the gospel of grace revealed to Paul was indeed a secret, only to be revealed in the "but now" period.
Unfortunately not true, grace was revealed since day 1. Adam and Eve the first recipients. Without grace they would have perished.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#25
Unfortunately not true, grace was revealed since day 1. Adam and Eve the first recipients. Without grace they would have perished.

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Well Paul stated his gospel according to the mystery was kept secret since the world began.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

and you are saying unfortunately not true? You are saying he lied?
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#26
Well Paul stated his gospel according to the mystery was kept secret since the world began.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

and you are saying unfortunately not true? You are saying he lied?
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The mystery was Jesus is the Christ :)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#27
Well Paul stated his gospel according to the mystery was kept secret since the world began.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

and you are saying unfortunately not true? You are saying he lied?
He was saying now it is you are able as to hear the gospel as he gives the understanding .Its still a secret to those who believe not.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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#28
This phrase "Since the world began" has intrigued me recently. Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

However, we know that the Jews rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 9, with the stoning of Stephen. It was at that time, Jesus raised Paul and revealed to him a secret, or a mystery, the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

My question for reflection is this, the prophecy of Jesus being their King, the Gospel of the Kingdom, was spoken by God since the world began. Yet Paul in Romans revealed that there was also a mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?
Rom 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Luk 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world even though they were future events.

All the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

All things were made with the plan of God coming in flesh, and without that plan God would of not created anything He created, which Jesus is the reason creation is successful, eternal life, and to judge the angels and people.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

Which Jesus is the beginning of creation, the firstborn of every creature, although the man Christ Jesus was not born until 4000 years later, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, and God coming in flesh was the first plan He had before starting creation.

All things were already planned out in the beginning, so even though they did not happen until the future it is the same as if they happened in the beginning.

That is why the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood was shed from the foundation of the world, all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Luk 1:70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began.

Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

So God can speak by the mouth of his holy prophets since the world began, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel.

Gospel of the kingdom, Gospel of grace, there is no separation between Jews and Gentiles by both terms, which Jesus told the disciples that the Gospel of the kingdom was to go out in to all the world, and grace was already mentioned for Jews in John.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.

The Gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ was kept secret since the world began, which was not known until that time to the nations for the obedience of faith who did not have the words of God like the Jews.

Paul was sent to the Gentiles so they did not know of that mystery, but the Jews would of known through the scriptures of the Messiah to come, but it was not revealed until Jesus came.

The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but Jesus did not come until the future.

God spoke by the prophets since the world began, but the prophets did not speak until the future.

For God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#29
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The mystery was Jesus is the Christ :)
Yes, it was spoken of and even shown through shadows and types, but it’s understanding came through Paul. Even Christ told His disciples of His upcoming d,b,r but they understood none of those things because it was hid from their minds.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#30
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

The mystery was Jesus is the Christ :)
That was the gospel of the kingdom. It was preached before Paul
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#31
That was the gospel of the kingdom. It was preached before Paul
There is only one per God.

You cannot invent another gospel. What is your mysterious goal ?.

If you desire to unlock the parables that reveal the mysteries of the gospel you must follow the prescriptions for rightly dividing the parable the signified tongue of God.

One thing according to the law of interpretation without parable Christ spoke not hiding the mystery in the parables revealing to them to a kingdom of priest that use the prescription . Like the one I offer below. No searching the mystery as for silver or gold it remains under the surface . Got to dig to find pearls .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#32
One thing according to the law of interpretation without parable Christ spoke not hiding the mystery in the parables revealing to them to a kingdom of priest that use the prescription .
That is the most egregiously convoluted word salad I have read a long time. PLEASE take a class in basic English. You are wasting your time on this site when you can't construct a coherent and meaningful sentence.

Got to dig to find pearls .
Pearls are not dug from the ground. You will never interpret parables and metaphors properly if you don't understand the literal references correctly.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#33
This phrase "Since the world began" has intrigued me recently. Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

However, we know that the Jews rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 9, with the stoning of Stephen. It was at that time, Jesus raised Paul and revealed to him a secret, or a mystery, the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

My question for reflection is this, the prophecy of Jesus being their King, the Gospel of the Kingdom, was spoken by God since the world began. Yet Paul in Romans revealed that there was also a mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?
GODś Plan was from the beginning...since the world began...before HE even brought forth CREATION...including the world
GOD foreknew everything...HIS creation, HIS prophets...everything....from beginning to the end...
HE, as HE created saw and knew the end....since the world began...
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#34
Well Paul stated his gospel according to the mystery was kept secret since the world began.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

and you are saying unfortunately not true? You are saying he lied?
That mystery is the story of THE GOSPEL...and the body...which could not be revealed until the fullness of time would come..
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#35
That was the GOSPEL of THE SON of GOD...that was the story of salvation in,by and through THE MESSIAH, THE SAVIOR,who would save...and not in the way the Jews of old had assumed...

THE KINGDOM is another mystery altogether but comes by THE GOSPEL...and belief in THAT GOSPEL...itś a growing Kingdom and has no walls
That was the gospel of the kingdom. It was preached before Paul
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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591
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#36
There is only one per God.

You cannot invent another gospel. What is your mysterious goal ?.

If you desire to unlock the parables that reveal the mysteries of the gospel you must follow the prescriptions for rightly dividing the parable the signified tongue of God.

One thing according to the law of interpretation without parable Christ spoke not hiding the mystery in the parables revealing to them to a kingdom of priest that use the prescription . Like the one I offer below. No searching the mystery as for silver or gold it remains under the surface . Got to dig to find pearls .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It has nothing to do with the parables...it has to do with the SPEAKER of those parables.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#38
That is the most egregiously convoluted word salad I have read a long time. PLEASE take a class in basic English. You are wasting your time on this site when you can't construct a coherent and meaningful sentence.
Sounds like a hard saying did it offend you?

So then you are saying that the mysteries are not hid in parables?
Pearls are not dug from the ground. You will never interpret parables and metaphors properly if you don't understand the literal references correctly.
Got to dig down to the bottom of the ocean in the sand to find to find the gospel mysteries hid in parables. Different ways to seek after the hidden manna. (2 Corinthians 4:18 is one)
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#39
Its what parables do SPEAK for the unseen speaker.
The unseen speaker was SEEN as HE gave this parable to those who might have the eyes and ears to hear, along with those who didn´t
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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#40
Shall we discuss the parables and what all these parables pointed to?
They pointed to THE SPEAKER.