Prophecy vs mystery: Since the world began

[Guojing]

This phrase "Since the world began" has intrigued me recently. Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

However, we know that the Jews rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 9, with the stoning of Stephen. It was at that time, Jesus raised Paul and revealed to him a secret, or a mystery, the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

My question for reflection is this, the prophecy of Jesus being their King, the Gospel of the Kingdom, was spoken by God since the world began. Yet Paul in Romans revealed that there was also a mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?

 

[posthuman]

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham

salvation, spoken since the world began

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

restitution of all things, spoken since the word began

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

Jesus Christ, the mystery kept secret since the world began.


starting from the beginning of the world, we have creation. and we have the first man - at that time, if salvation and the restitution of all things is being spoken by the mouth of His prophets, we have only a few choices of who is prophesying:

• creation
• the angels
• the living creatures
• Adam

so, where is the first recorded prophecy of salvation and the restitution of all things in scripture? where is Christ in it, and is it mysterious?

 

[Iroaou]

salvation, spoken since the world began




restitution of all things, spoken since the word began




Jesus Christ, the mystery kept secret since the world began.


starting from the beginning of the world, we have creation. and we have the first man - at that time, if salvation and the restitution of all things is being spoken by the mouth of His prophets, we have only a few choices of who is prophesying:

• creation
• the angels
• the living creatures
• Adam

so, where is the first recorded prophecy of salvation and the restitution of all things in scripture? where is Christ in it, and is it mysterious?

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”

 

[Guojing]

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”

The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?

A secret is not spoken correct? They must be referring to two distinct things.

 

[Iroaou]

The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?

A secret is not spoken correct? They must be referring to two distinct things.

I was not answering your question I was answering someone else's question.

 

[dcontroversal]

Progressive Revelation.......and this began to be testified of when God killed the first animals, shed blood and covered man's shame and nakedness and then confirmed with the prediction of Genesis 3:15

Jesus was clear....In the volume of the book it is written of me

and a hard truth to grasp.........

“I revealed Myself to those who did not ask for Me; I was found by those who did not seek Me. To a nation that did not call My name, I said, ‘Here I am! Here I am!’

He that hath eyes to see and ears to hear!!!!!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

One cannot interpret this properly without the next two verses which complete the thought:
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

1. As other Scriptures in the NT show, the mystery was the Church itself (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). This was not revealed until Paul received that revelation.

2. Another mystery was that salvation would be "through Jesus Christ". While we know that we have intimations of Him in the OT in many ways "Jesus Christ" Himself was not revealed until John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world".

3. The obedience of faith was not fully revealed either until Jesus and the apostles preached repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

4. The Gospel to all nations was not revealed either until the time of Christ's ascension, when He gave the Great Commission for the Gospel to go into all the world and be preached to every creature.

 

[Guojing]

One cannot interpret this properly without the next two verses which complete the thought:
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

1. As other Scriptures in the NT show, the mystery was the Church itself (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). This was not revealed until Paul received that revelation.

2. Another mystery was that salvation would be "through Jesus Christ". While we know that we have intimations of Him in the OT in many ways "Jesus Christ" Himself was not revealed until John the Baptist said "Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world".

3. The obedience of faith was not fully revealed either until Jesus and the apostles preached repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

4. The Gospel to all nations was not revealed either until the time of Christ's ascension, when He gave the Great Commission for the Gospel to go into all the world and be preached to every creature.

So what do you think was Zacharias and Peter talking about in Luke and Acts? Was it referring to Jesus as the promised Messiah and King to the Jews?

Do you think Zach was talking about Jews and Gentiles in one Body?

 

[posthuman]

I was not answering your question I was answering someone else's question.

I was rephrasing Guojings question.

 

[Guojing]

salvation, spoken since the world began




restitution of all things, spoken since the word began




Jesus Christ, the mystery kept secret since the world began.


starting from the beginning of the world, we have creation. and we have the first man - at that time, if salvation and the restitution of all things is being spoken by the mouth of His prophets, we have only a few choices of who is prophesying:

• creation
• the angels
• the living creatures
• Adam

so, where is the first recorded prophecy of salvation and the restitution of all things in scripture? where is Christ in it, and is it mysterious?

The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?

A secret is not spoken correct? They must be referring to two distinct things.

 

[garee]

This phrase "Since the world began" has intrigued me recently. Performing a search in the KJV bible, here are some places where it appears.

Luke 1
67And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Acts 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Both the Luke and Acts account are speaking of the same thing, which is how Jesus came as a promise from God to the Jews, to be their King, their Messiah, their redeemer. This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

However, we know that the Jews rejected their Messiah for the final time in Acts 9, with the stoning of Stephen. It was at that time, Jesus raised Paul and revealed to him a secret, or a mystery, the Gospel of Grace.

Romans 16
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began

My question for reflection is this, the prophecy of Jesus being their King, the Gospel of the Kingdom, was spoken by God since the world began. Yet Paul in Romans revealed that there was also a mystery which was kept secret since the world began.

For those people who believe that both Gospels contain the same message, wouldn't this be some kind of contradiction? How do people still see both messages as the same?

The gospel must be sought after as for Silver of Gold .It like precious metals cannot be found by not digging in getting one hands as a will involved in seeking the approval of God.

The mystery is revealed by following the laws of interpretation to interpret it properly.

Like without parables using the things seen the temporal to represent the unseen mysteries Christ spoke not. Purposely hiding the mystery though a dark glass .

Psalm 49:4I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.

Psalm 78:2I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

Proverbs 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.

Like the dark saying or parable below.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

 

[Dino246]

The mystery is revealed by following the laws of interpretation to interpret it properly.

The mystery is what this collection of words means:

"It like precious metals cannot be found by not digging in getting one hands as a will involved in seeking the approval of God."

Like the dark saying or parable below.

John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

That isn't a parable.

 

[garee]

The mystery is what this collection of words means:

"It like precious metals cannot be found by not digging in getting one hands as a will involved in seeking the approval of God."

You could ask then it would not be a mystery.

Don't be afraid to dig in you might receive the unseen spiritual understanding purposely hid in order to teach us how to "walk by faith" the unseen eternal.. and not by sight as that seen the temporal

That isn't a parable.

Really how is Jesus the light of the world? So bright his mother calls him Sun? Is he the Sun half the time and the Moon the other??

It would seem you might want to put on the parable glasses 20/20 prescription.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.



Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:


Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:...(with no spiritual understanding).

 

[JaumeJ]

The question I was asking is, how can the same thing be both a secret since the world began, and spoken since the world began?

A secret is not spoken correct? They must be referring to two distinct things.

Do you read the teaching of our Lord and Savior? To those who are perishing it is but foolishness, even a dark secret, yet it is not heard by them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So what do you think was Zacharias and Peter talking about in Luke and Acts? Was it referring to Jesus as the promised Messiah and King to the Jews? Do you think Zach was talking about Jews and Gentiles in one Body?

The passage from Luke is no doubt focused on Israel. But the passage from Acts is about the whole world and "the times of restitution of all things" will begin with the Millennium and go on to the New Heavens and the New Earth.

But it was Simeon in the temple who included Gentiles into the Body of Christ (indirectly and prophetically). This was to tell the Jews that eventually Gentiles would come into the Church, and we now know that they are in a majority in the Church.

LUKE 2
25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, thischild is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

 

[Guojing]

Do you read the teaching of our Lord and Savior? To those who are perishing it is but foolishness, even a dark secret, yet it is not heard by them.

So in your opinion, is the prophecy of the kingdom the same as the mystery of Jews and Gentiles being in the same body of Christ? What do you think is the difference between them?

 

[Guojing]

The passage from Luke is no doubt focused on Israel. But the passage from Acts is about the whole world and "the times of restitution of all things" will begin with the Millennium and go on to the New Heavens and the New Earth.

But it was Simeon in the temple who included Gentiles into the Body of Christ (indirectly and prophetically). This was to tell the Jews that eventually Gentiles would come into the Church, and we now know that they are in a majority in the Church.

LUKE 2
25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,
29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:
30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,
31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;
32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, thischild is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

Do you think the Jewish nation need to accept Jesus as their Messiah first, before the Gentiles could come in?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you think the Jewish nation need to accept Jesus as their Messiah first, before the Gentiles could come in?

Ideally that was the plan. But in reality it did not work out that way. The interesting Bible facts are that (a) it was Gentile magi (either Arabians or Persians) who first worshipped Christ (Matthew 2), and (b) it was the despised Samaritans who were saved before any Jews (John 4). Which shows that God is no respecter of persons.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is only those who are true Jews who have accepted Jesus, Yeshua. These are those who comprise the Israel of God forever.

 

[Guojing]

It is only those who are true Jews who have accepted Jesus, Yeshua. These are those who comprise the Israel of God forever.

Are you answering my earlier question, or making another point?