Not By Works

so the only way possible is for them to repent of their belief system and come solely to the foot of the cross. like the tax collector did

This is not a fair comment to make. Everyone will confess that salvation cannot be obtained without the cross. It's the "after" the cross part where there is disagreement.

And I suspect, like you and yours, believe we get our belief system from the Bible.

The question is:

How did each party reach their understanding of salvation in light of the complete testimony of the gospel as it is written?

That's the point that probably will not make a difference anyway though.

In my experience people who spend a lot of time using many words to explain a simple Bible passage have been taught how to explain it that way.

i don't see a similarity here at all -- forgiveness is not 'for sale' and redemption is accomplished - price paid in full

when Christ hung on the cross, sir, every single one of your sins was 'future' -- He isn't crucified a second time. we're not 'adding sins' to His shoulders every time we repent of another one; 'by one sacrifice' He has made perfect -- taking upon His shoulder the iniquity of us all.

Since they believe we are justified by faiht plus works. They HAVE to believe we preach a license to sin. There is no way around it, unless the repent

then their are those who believe we obtain salvation at the cross plus....

I do not believe you or anyone who believes OSAS preach a license to sin.

But certainty you can see how some could come to this conclusion, right?



Well, is it not written that you are to be diligent in adding to your faith in order to make your calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:5-10)?

No one needs a "license" to sin

Verse 7 plainly lays out a an 'if/then" condition going forward - "If thou wilt walk in My ways...then shalt thou judge...keep...and walk among those who stand by.

So?

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lawlessness...

Some do, and turn the grace of our God into a manifestation of it.

Ishtar, Babylonian fertility goddess. Jesus didn't come to start the Christian religion. Manmade religion is always combining the sacred and the profane. Demons know He died and rose again but they reject holiness, the Kingdom of God and the preeminence of the Holy Spirit. Sound like Christianity at all?

"Easter" has helped obscure what the fulfillment of Christ as our Passover is intended to do in our lives. We must come out of Egypt. We must come through the water. We must receive the pillar of fire/cloud, moving only at His direction, following Him wholeheartedly so that we can go in and take this Land of Promises found in the Word of God. His Kingdom must come. His will must be done on earth - and by us - just as it is done in heaven. The Lord Jesus didn't come for a day to be celebrated once a year, for buildings to be built, for children to wear pretty dresses and hunt fertility symbols in the tall grass. Satan tosses his head back in gleeful laughter. Jesus didn't come for us to sit in a pew an hour and a half a week and look at the back of someone's head, stand up, sit down, stand up sit down, listen to "the pastor" lecture and walk out until we do it again next week. It's all an inspired mockery.

The Bible is our Constitution. God tells us to pray without stopping, that His Word is always to be on our lips, to do nothing on our own initiative, to stop sinning, that a man's hair is to be short and woman's long. To eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. To be perfect. That the husband in the head of the wife just as Christ is the Head of the Church. That a church in a locality consists solely of men who are elders, of deacons (servers) and sheep. And on and on with many things "God's people" reject and that are alien to them.

Sola Scriptura. Jesus Christ is Lord and our spiritual act of worship is the presentation of our bodies to Him as living sacrifices. Yes, He is Head over ALL things for His (true) Church. Narrow is the gate and difficult the Way to life, and few are they that find it.

Acts 12:4 KJV

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I do not believe you or anyone who believes OSAS preach a license to sin.

But certainty you can see how some could come to this conclusion, right?

Well, is it not written that you are to be diligent in adding to your faith in order to make your calling and election sure (2 Peter 1:5-10)?

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lawlessness...

Some do, and turn the grace of our God into a manifestation of it.

Fruit is the expected and obligatory sign that accompanies salvation.
Just as being wet is the expected and obligatory sign of having gone swimming.

Are you familiar with the two main 'signs' in the old covenant?

Just as physical circumcision was the sign of being born into the nation of Israel, so it is that spiritual circumcision (the putting off of the deeds of the flesh) is the sign of being born into the kingdom of God.

Just as Sabbath keeping was the sign of the obedient resident of Israel, so it is that entering into the spiritual Sabbath (rest from the taskmaster of sin) is the sign of the obedient resident of the household of Christ.

taskmaster of sin

Unfortunately this is true of all parties involved on CC. You do not mention the word law because then you have to do works to enter the Kingdom. Mention Leviticus and you open a can of worms. Thing is we all have truths and if we accommodate each other’s views we might come to the conclusion that we are actually agreeing more than we disagree. Satan is using this thread and website to sow discord amongst God’s followers and even if we are not doing it purposefully we are sometimes guilty of fitting the bill.

Even Peter was an instrument of that when Jesus rebuked him Matthew 16:23.

God bless friends

I know I am a sinner , saved by Gods amazing grace , and knowing His mercy and grace are new every morning reminds me that He gives this to us because we need it daily , and that comforts me Amen...
...xox...

The similarity between OSAS and the RCC is not "how" forgiveness for future sins is obtained, but that both claim it can be obtained, the former by a license and the latter by legalism.

Agreed. He bears the iniquity of the saints, not former saints.
So? Lots of false practices are predicated on true circumstances. The fact that the RCC allows advance purchase of forgiveness for future sins we intend to indulge doesn't detract in the least from the truth that Jesus offers forgiveness totally free to any saint who falls down on the Path of the Just but repents and gets up and continues on.
Pretty sure Hebrews 6 says that the saints who fall away do that very thing. If your theory were correct, then Christ would never be crucified afresh because the saints' future sins are already forgiven, right?

And OSAS says, here's a license to go and sin some more, free of charge.

Verse 4 says iniquity is forgiven. Verse 7 plainly lays out a an 'if/then" condition going forward - "If thou wilt walk in My ways...then shalt thou judge...keep...and walk among those who stand by."

It seems OSAS always wants plainly stated covenant conditions to be interpreted as just inconsequential suggestions.

The "extras" the RCC requires is "good works" in order to lessen one's time in Purgatory (God, moved by His satisfaction with Jesus' mission, bestowed the authority to forgive upon the priesthood to distribute freely as they see fit).

The Bible says no such thing, nor do I. The Bible says if we want to escape punishment, we need only to seek Jesus in confession and repentance, all of which is an exercise in thought, not works.

How much sinlessness proves salvation?

How much sin causes the loss of salvation?

The fact is in your dogma, no person really knows when they have lost salvation.......... because God did not give a clear statement when this happens in scripture.

So all you have done, is give fear some nebulous, unclear line that cannot be crossed but no one really knows when one crosses that line ever.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lawlessness...

Some do, and turn the grace of our God into a manifestation of it.

yes -- but note that they turn the actual grace of God into this.
they do not 'invent a false doctrine of grace' that doesn't exist; they abuse the truth.
God has wiped away our sin -- the reaction we have to that ought to be to do what's right, not go on being wicked and certainly not add more and more evil to our lives! but the fact that some react wrongly, and teach others to, does not destroy the redeeming work of God; it despises it.