Did Jesus die to take the punishment for everyone's sins?

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mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#21
Apr 7, 2014
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#21
2 Corinthians 5:21 - He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Peter 2:24 - and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

1 John 2:2 - and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Praise our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ! :love:
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#22
Sep 3, 2016
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#22
MessageOfTheCross said:
Our Lord Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins. He bore our sins that we may bare His Righteousness. He was made a curse and His body was broken that we may be blessed by remembering what His Blood has done. He became poor, that through His poverty we might be rich. He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows (infirmities, sickness, and diseases); and with His stripes we are healed. He Blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, He made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. He was raised from the dead without our sins, and we have been raised in Him. And today, by faith we sit with our Lord our God, Jesus Christ, at His Right Hand resting in His victory (what He did) at Calvary Cross, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.
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Always remember Jesus Christ is Jehovah in the Old Testament, and the Son of God and the Lamb of God in the New Testament. This is why Paul said we preach Christ Crucified (the Son of God and the Lamb of God). Why would the Holy Spirit tell him to say this? Because that is the only way that gives the Holy Spirit the legal means to help us (with any problem, situation, or circumstance) and change us by Grace through Faith (in Jesus Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won) into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#23
Aug 22, 2014
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#23
Jimbone said:
Yes He did all glory to our King!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just realized the context of the question. There's no question He died to make the only way to reconciliation with God, but I guess the hard answer is no He didn't. If He would have everyone would be saved. Great question and example of how we're trained to think of these things in a certain way, but the truth may be a bit different.
 
C

Craigb513

Member
#24
Dec 15, 2016
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#24
Yes of course it is for everyone or at least anyone who is willing to accept him
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#25
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#25
Jimbone said:
Just realized the context of the question. There's no question He died to make the only way to reconciliation with God, but I guess the hard answer is no He didn't. If He would have everyone would be saved. Great question and example of how we're trained to think of these things in a certain way, but the truth may be a bit different.
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The correct answer comes from Jesus Himself. He is willing in that yes He satisfied all that was needed to atone for every mans sin. The problem is that not every man will accept His forgiveness.

Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Platosgal

Platosgal

Active member
#26
Mar 17, 2020
282
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#26
John146 said:
And whole world means just that, not the “whole world of the elect.”

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.[/QUOTE

"Whomsoever BELIEVETH IN HIM..." John 3:16
"Many are called few are chosen" Matt 22:14

Is it possible that the option to be saved from sin is available to all, but the ego of mankind restricts his Mercy? Therefor he has a right to give Justice instead?
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NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#27
Nov 23, 2019
977
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#27
What about those chosen from the old covenant times who knew nothing of Jesus, they didn’t believe in Jesus, how did they end up in heaven?
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#28
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
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#28
MessageOfTheCross said:
Always remember Jesus Christ is Jehovah in the Old Testament, and the Son of God and the Lamb of God in the New Testament. This is why Paul said we preach Christ Crucified (the Son of God and the Lamb of God). Why would the Holy Spirit tell him to say this? Because that is the only way that gives the Holy Spirit the legal means to help us (with any problem, situation, or circumstance) and change us by Grace through Faith (in Jesus Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary Cross where the victory was won) into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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“THE MODEL PRAYER - Matthew 6

9 After this manner therefore pray you (is meant to be in total contrast to the heathen practice; as well, it is to be prayed in full confidence, that the Heavenly Father will hear and answer according to His Will): Our Father (our prayer should be directed toward our Heavenly Father, and not Christ or the Holy Spirit) Who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your Name (we reverence His Name).

10 Your Kingdom come (this will definitely happen at the Second Coming), Your Will be done in Earth, as it is in Heaven (the Will of God is all-important; it will be carried out on Earth, beginning with the Kingdom Age).

11 Give us this day our daily bread (we are to look to the Lord for sustenance, both natural and spiritual).

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors (the word “debts” here refers to “trespasses” and “sins”; His forgiveness on our part is predicated on our forgiving others).

13 And lead (because of self-confidence) us not into temptation (help us not to be led into testing — the idea is, in my self-confidence, which stems from the flesh and not the Spirit, please do not allow me to be led into temptation, for I will surely fail!), but deliver us (the trap is more powerful than man can handle; only God can deliver; He does so through the Power of the Holy Spirit, according to our Faith in Christ and the Cross [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]) from evil (the Evil One, Satan himself): For Yours is the kingdom (this Earth belongs to the Lord and not Satan; he is an usurper), and the power (God has the Power to deliver, which He does, as stated, through the Cross), and the glory (the Glory belongs to God, and not Satan), forever (none of this will ever change). Amen (this Word expresses a solemn ratification; in the Mind of God, the defeat and destruction of Satan and, therefore, all evil in the world, is a foregone conclusion).

14 For if you forgive men (it must be the God kind of forgiveness) their trespasses (large sins), your Heavenly Father will also forgive you (forgiveness rests totally on the Atoning Work of Christ; it is an act of sheer Grace):

15 But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (if we want God to forgive us, we must at the same time forgive others; if not, His forgiveness for us is withheld; consequently, such a person is in jeopardy of losing their soul).

JSM
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#29
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#29
MessageOfTheCross said:
“THE MODEL PRAYER - Matthew 6

9 After this manner therefore pray you (is meant to be in total contrast to the heathen practice; as well, it is to be prayed in full confidence, that the Heavenly Father will hear and answer according to His Will): Our Father (our prayer should be directed toward our Heavenly Father, and not Christ or the Holy Spirit) Who is in Heaven, Hallowed be Your Name (we reverence His Name).

10 Your Kingdom come (this will definitely happen at the Second Coming), Your Will be done in Earth, as it is in Heaven (the Will of God is all-important; it will be carried out on Earth, beginning with the Kingdom Age).

11 Give us this day our daily bread (we are to look to the Lord for sustenance, both natural and spiritual).

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors (the word “debts” here refers to “trespasses” and “sins”; His forgiveness on our part is predicated on our forgiving others).

13 And lead (because of self-confidence) us not into temptation (help us not to be led into testing — the idea is, in my self-confidence, which stems from the flesh and not the Spirit, please do not allow me to be led into temptation, for I will surely fail!), but deliver us (the trap is more powerful than man can handle; only God can deliver; He does so through the Power of the Holy Spirit, according to our Faith in Christ and the Cross [Rom. 8:1-2, 11]) from evil (the Evil One, Satan himself): For Yours is the kingdom (this Earth belongs to the Lord and not Satan; he is an usurper), and the power (God has the Power to deliver, which He does, as stated, through the Cross), and the glory (the Glory belongs to God, and not Satan), forever (none of this will ever change). Amen (this Word expresses a solemn ratification; in the Mind of God, the defeat and destruction of Satan and, therefore, all evil in the world, is a foregone conclusion).

14 For if you forgive men (it must be the God kind of forgiveness) their trespasses (large sins), your Heavenly Father will also forgive you (forgiveness rests totally on the Atoning Work of Christ; it is an act of sheer Grace):

15 But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses (if we want God to forgive us, we must at the same time forgive others; if not, His forgiveness for us is withheld; consequently, such a person is in jeopardy of losing their soul).

JSM
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"Psalms 23

1 The LORD is My Shepherd; I shall not want. (Even though this beautiful Psalm applied to David, and to all Believers as well, more than all it applied to Christ.

Williams says, “Only one voice sang this Psalm in perfect tune. It was the Voice of Jesus. When walking through the dark valley of His earthly Life, Jehovah was His Shepherd. There is no suggestion of sin in the Psalm. Its great theme is not so much what Jehovah gives, or does, as what or Who He is.”

And yet, at the same time, as Christ presents Himself as the Sheep, He is also presented as the Great Shepherd of His People, for He was raised from the dead in order to be such [Heb. 13:20].)

“2 He makes Me to lie down in green pastures (any other voice that is followed will lead only to barren pastures): He leads Me beside the still waters. (The 23rd Psalm makes it abundantly clear that the Church is not the Saviour, neither is religious hierarchy the Saviour, neither are rules and regulations the Saviour. Only the Lord is. We can follow Him, or we can follow other things; we cannot follow both.)

3 He restores My soul (when the sheep skin their forehead foraging for grass, the shepherd would pour oil over the wounds): He leads Me in the paths of Righteousness for His Name’s sake. (At times the lamb will leave the appointed path, even doing so several times, being retrieved each time by the shepherd. But, if it leaves too many times, the shepherd, upon retrieving it from the rocky crevices, will take his staff and break one of the legs. He then carefully “sets” the leg, and then lays the lamb on his shoulder close to his heart. He carries it until the wound is healed. That is a symbol of chastisement [Heb. 12:5–11].)

4 Yes, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil (the powers of darkness, constituting powerful attacks by Satan): for You are with Me; Your rod and Your staff they comfort Me. (The ideal position for the “lamb” is to allow the Shepherd to fight for him. In fact, the only fight we are told to fight is the “good fight of Faith” [I Tim. 6:12].

What a comfort it is to know that the “rod” and “staff” are constantly beating back the powers of darkness on our behalf.)

5 You prepare a table before Me in the presence of My enemies (and these “enemies” cannot touch this “prepared table”): You anoint My head with oil (a Type of the Holy Spirit); My cup runs over (a figure of speech that refers to abundance).

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow Me all the days of My life (“goodness” gives us green pastures and still waters; “mercy” retrieves us when we foolishly leave the “paths of righteousness”): and I will dwell in the House of the LORD for ever (as long as the Lord is our Shepherd, we can expect all of this, “all the days of our lives”).”

JSM
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#30
May 17, 2013
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#30
NOV25 said:
What about those chosen from the old covenant times who knew nothing of Jesus, they didn’t believe in Jesus, how did they end up in heaven?
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They knew that God would send a Redeemer. They were saved by grace through faith in Gods promises.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#31
Aug 22, 2014
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#31
notuptome said:
The correct answer comes from Jesus Himself. He is willing in that yes He satisfied all that was needed to atone for every mans sin. The problem is that not every man will accept His forgiveness.

Mt 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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That I can 1 billion % agree with, that He did die for the world to be reconciled to God and made the way, yet I still stand behind saying that if Jesus died "to save the everyone", and "everyone is not saved", then you're pretty hard pressed to deny the failure here. I think saying He died so all those that believe may be saved is much more accurate, and really what you just said.
 
Jimbone

Jimbone

Senior Member
#32
Aug 22, 2014
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#32
Jimbone said:
Just realized the context of the question. There's no question He died to make the only way to reconciliation with God, but I guess the hard answer is no He didn't. If He would have everyone would be saved. Great question and example of how we're trained to think of these things in a certain way, but the truth may be a bit different.
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And after reading the OP yet again I have to say YES Jesus did die to "take the punishment" for everyone's sin. So the whole rant about "saving everyone" was completely irrelevant to the original question. So I'm back to YES, yes He did praise His glorious name.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#33
#33
notuptome said:
They knew that God would send a Redeemer. They were saved by grace through faith in Gods promises.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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What about all the Gentiles in the OT?
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#36
Nov 23, 2019
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#36
notuptome said:
They knew that God would send a Redeemer. They were saved by grace through faith in Gods promises.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Yes, saved by grace through faith in God, but not in Jesus, they didn’t know Jesus.

Just so it’s clear, I’m not arguing with you Roger, I think we’re on the same page. Just playing advocate for the opposition.
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#37
Jun 2, 2016
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#37
Romans 10 Do not say who will ascend or who will descend

That's why the word of FAITH is preached
 
A

Adstar

Senior Member
#39
Jul 24, 2016
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#39
Whispered said:
@Adstar , how do you disagree with 1st. John? 🙁
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I do not disagree with 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John is saying that His Atonement ( propitation ) is for all nations tribes peoples.. It is not just for jews or greeks but for sinners from every race of people.. In context with the entirety of that rest of the scriptures that is the way it is to be understood..
 
NOV25

NOV25

Well-known member
#40
Nov 23, 2019
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#40
Adstar said:
I do not disagree with 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John is saying that His Atonement ( propitation ) is for all nations tribes peoples.. It is not just for jews or greeks but for sinners from every race of people.. In context with the entirety of that rest of the scriptures that is the way it is to be understood..
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Just so I understand you, are you saying that on that day atonement was made for every man that ever lived and will live in the future?
 
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