Whatever Happened to the Ten Commandments?

oh not this again

I guess some people really do not know

as Christians, we KNOW we cannot go around sinning and therefore make every effort to please God which would include understanding the law of God now written on our hearts

but no. the urge to prove some Christians are not as good as the originator of such constant and abusive op's and must needs hear it again, that our narrow world view is guided by, hemmed in and locked in place with only a window too high to look out of (forgive the run on sentence...or not...I don't care) is just irresistible

so they offer yet another glass of soured milk with no cookies and hunt for those to scold who say we are saved by grace and not by obedience and totally and willingly overlook the fact that no one is saying 'let us sin' because they counter with grace when law is brought up

even the horses on the merry go round have left for greener pastures and nausea is the only offering on the tableau of yet another inane discussion

Jesus stated that the law and the prophets are summed up by :

37Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

the entire law and prophets even....summed up which means totalled by

but why did Jesus say this?

34And when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they themselves gathered together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested Him with a question: 36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”

He said it because the religious parasites of His day were yet again trying to trick Him

I see trickery in this thread and I am not Jesus nor a religious leader of any sort

I see trickery in many threads here because certain people desire to lead with no qualifications or having some of any sort, think themselves above others and insist on shoving their continuous and certifiably obnoxious repetitions onto others who keep responding to their delight and behold yet another day passes by and Jesus is not honored nor is better understanding achieved

well good on me, eh?

I'm not a fan favorite here anyway and nor do I care to be.

Some real wisdom here - "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear!"

born of years in this forum and a couple of others

people keep trying to separate the 10 commandments from the supposed new ones Jesus gave

yet Jesus said those 2 were the SUMMATION of the 10

and when we take a look at the 10, we realize each one puts others before self...forced love if you will, but by now they should be written on our hearts

the only difficulty I would have with the 10, is when someone comes along and states they are obligatory for salvation

Jesus fulfilled ALL obligatory demands because He never sinned...even if we only sinned one time, we are OUT

but I could be preaching to the choir here if you understand what I wrote

Did you actually understand my post?

I did. You were using the lack of consequences from God to justify that act of Abraham.

I disagreed. God did not punish him because Abraham was like us, under grace. But it does not mean what he did was not wrong.

FYI, the Mormons have use other books, namely the Book of Abraham, and there was a passage that added that God himself told Abraham to lie.

Abraham should have told the truth so that he was killed by the Pharaoh that wanted his wife for himself? Abraham was murdered by Pharaoh but hey, at least he told the truth?

Jesus said that if you do these two, you will obey the rest

the law says do not covet, it does not tell you what coveting looks like, every instance or possible means of breaking it, or even how to obey it

it says do not covet.

then it says the truth, if you covet, you are seen as a lawbreaker. the penalty is death.
I am sure ever man woman and child can think of a time they coveted what a brother or sister or neighbor or friend had. As admission of this, they would admit, I am a sinner and need Christ. Hence the job of the schoolmaster

This is what gets people all up in a bother, they hear people telling people. obey the ten commands you will do well

well that’s fine and dandy

but is it not better to obey the law of love, in doing so. by practive you will obey the ten, and also not have to worry if your rally keeping them or not?

have you read my other posts in this thread? not too many actually

but I had this discussion with you in another thread and I left that thread wherein it was claimed you must keep the 10 commandments for your salvation...not by me but you probably know what I am talking about?

anyway, you cannot separate the 10 commandments from what Jesus said as He stated the 10 commandments were summed up by love the Lord your God with all your heart/soul/mind and your neighbor as yourself

Matthew 22:

34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

depending on what translation you use, Jesus states that the commandments (10) are summed by the 2 He responds with to the hypocrites wanting to trip Him up

there is no law of love separate from the original commandments

every one of the 10 puts someone before the person applying them...that is the love Jesus speaks of when He says love your neighbor as yourself

and it all starts with putting God first

basically, we are supposed to put others first...AFTER God...but not in a self righteous manner...there is no use in obeying anything if the motive is wrong

I don't see a whole lotta love being expressed when folks start going on about how you must obey this or that...you don't either

putting God first ...He put us before His Son...

Those parts of the Old that Jesus reiterated in the New are. And Gentiles are grafted in, therefore one cannot say, oh, that's only for the Jews, when God grafted Gentiles = Nations, into the Covenant.

I think we always get into a misunderstanding and it seems to cause these back and forths

coveting is still sin
dishonoring your parents is still sin
bearing false witness is still sin

if we break any of the ten, it is sin, even today. The ten commands still stand

my point of contention is how does a baby christian learn to grow to be mature and christlike

many, including the church I grew up in, said follow the ten commands, do this and you will be ok

well what I witness in myself and many others is this does not work, we all struggle with sin, we all struggle with trying to do things of our own power and failing, I have witnessed many walk away from God and myself did the same, it’s like why bother, I can not do what God asks, so how will he ever love me

well it is because we did it the wrong way, you don’t obey a command by looking to the command and saying, “I am not going to break it,“ especially if it is a besetting sin, because in doing so that sin is always on your mind, and eventually temptation will win out. It’s just like paul said, the command came and sin increased (it did the opposite of what we would think)

jesus tells us how to obey, learn to love, where does this power come from? We love because he first loved us.
if we love our neighbor and think only of how can we serve them, we will not sin against them, nor even be tempted to.

this is what Jesus meant.

my beef is with those who think the ten commands are the means to moral living, it’s not, never has been, never will be. It’s a burden we can not carry,

Jeremiah said the New Covenant would replace the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31–34). Moses said the Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; Deuteronomy 9:9 etc.). And Jesus said: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” (Matthew 5:17–18).

So how do we harmonize Jeremiah who says the New Covenant will replace the Ten Commandments? And Moses who confirms the Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant. With Jesus who says “one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” Does this mean heaven and earth cannot end until he fulfills all? And that he would do this before the New Covenant could begin?

The solution is in the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus shows how to fulfill the Ten Commandments with the Two Great Commandments. The Two Great Commandments teach: “…. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” Luke 10:27 (KJV 1900) Calling for positive action based on love towards God and people.

In the parable of the Good Samaritan the passersby avoided the mugging victim. But they kept the Ten Commandments. They kept the eighth commandment by not stealing more from the victim while in a vulnerable position. But they still robbed him according to the Two Great Commandments. By not treating him as their equal and running to his aid.

So Why the Ten Commandments? The Ten Commandments aimed at controlling the wicked unbelievers in the nation. These were so wicked it took 40 years of toil to complete an eleven day journey from Egypt to Canaan. Wandering in the desert until all but faithful Caleb and Joshua dropped dead. God denied them the land promises because of their sin.

As Paul says: “But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;” 1 Timothy 1:8–10 (KJV 1900)

It is obvious Abraham, Abel, Job and other believers did not need the Law or they would have had it too. When God removed the unbelievers from Israel under Christ (Romans 11), he removed the Ten Commandments with them (Colossians 2:14). Leaving only the moral law in its spiritual application for believers.

During the closing years of the Old Covenant Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7). Showing the Ten Commandments were morally equal to the Two Great Commandments when understood. As with the Good Samaritan, passively not stealing from someone according to the Ten Commandments is still stealing if you owe them the same treatment you lavish on yourself. Not stealing under threat of death does not make you good. It only makes bad people not do badly under threat of death. Only when obeyed actively in love for God and others did a person keep the Ten at a level equal the Two Great Commandments.

Jesus showed how to fulfill the Law. If he fulfilled the Ten Commandments on the cross as the unbelieving Jews understood them. He would not have lusted after Pilate’s wife. Or stolen his spear. Or coveted the soldier’s shield, and such. And then he would have felt good about himself for not doing these when he wanted to. This is the level most kept the Ten Commandments as seen in the Pharisees. And then perhaps thanking God as the Pharisee that he is not like others who do such.

But when Jesus fulfilled the Two Great Commandments, he fulfilled the Ten Commandments in a proper way too. Because when spiritually understood they have equal moral value to the Two Great Commandments. (Matthew 22:40).

So how did Jesus fulfill the Law?

“And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.” Luke 10:27 (KJV 1900)

When Jesus fulfilled the Law on the cross, he Loved God with all his mind, body, soul, and heart and strength. And his neighbor as himself.

He gave all his body over to the worst death imaginable in love for God and enemies. He gave his entire mind and soul in love for God when he said “not my will but thy will be done”. And he gave his last ounce of strength in his love for God and enemies as we wrenched the last drop of blood from him. And he loved his enemies as his own self when he asked God to forgive them for killing him.

So Jesus when fulfilling the Two Great Commandments also fulfilled the Ten to the fullest extent. And in that he abolished them in their redundancy by nailing them to his cross (Colossians 2:14). So when we think of the Law as believers today, we see the Ten Commandments no longer in their elementary form. But in their spiritual form equal to the Two Great Commandments through the Sermon on the Mount. Providing a practical application of the Two Great Commandments for everyday life.

The "original" ten commandments were destroyed by Moses. God did not panic. He made a copy of the originals, and the copy was better than the originals. It stayed in tact and people got to read and live by them. We should never put more emphasis on the "originals" than God Himself does.

What happened to the tablets?

The originals? Moses destroyed them. Moses was the only one to have read the originals.

How about the copies?

I honestly do not understand why you continue to talk about sin

IMO, that's a given

you cannot keep the law to be holy or perfect or acceptable to God however as Christians we know the law is just

I can only repeat what I have been saying

the supposed new laws or commands that Jesus gave are a summation of the 10

I have never been exposed to follow the 10 commandments as a means for salvation or retaining salvation

there is only one way that leads to salvation and those who pursue their own holiness cannot possibly understand that this is not the way

the not by works thread is approaching 6500 pages...obviously, not going to be resolved any time soon and yet Paul states that it is time to move past the rudimentary teachings of Christ

I agree but try to start a thread that concerns something else and you will get people quickly turning it into something else

I have to say that is more than getting a little old

I do not know why what I say is so hard for you to understand. Is it because you have no desire to? Or am I speaking something foreign to you? Or what is it? Can we try to figure it out?

why is it so hard for you to comprehend my issue is how one grows in Christ. (The means of growth or sanctification of a new believer)?

It is Not sin, it is not A conversation of how we are or not saved yet you keep bringing these topics up as if this is what I am discussing.

can you for once read what u said and try to show you have even a basic understanding of it? Because until then we will never resolve our issue

go read post 81

he understood

perhaps he has the patience to go over it all with you again, but I doubt he would have the patience for your insults