The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

I agree

Pretrib doctrine is dangeros, It Will make people not ready for persecution. They believe Jesus love you so He Will protect you from persecution.

Yes Jesus love me, He love Stephen but He let Stephen die oN persecution.

Some people believe love mean not let persecution happen. The fact is in the history of christianity, persecution always show up, since the apostle time to now, If you go to north Korea, or middle east

Real Christian like apostle not afraid of persecutions but rejoicing If God let them to suffer for Him.

That is the different between apostle and us, we are not willing to suffer for Christ, they are proud, looking for the opportunity of Being suffer or persecute for Christ.

Act 5
41 The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name.

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Her supposed "vision" was not biblical... and it/she also did not describe a "pre-trib" rapture. (The idea that this doctrine originated from her so-called "vision" is incorrect and has long been debunked.)

For the readers to consider:


[quoting from wikipedia]

"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]

[...]

"References [...]

"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision" [ https://web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).

"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

[end quoting wikipedia; bold, color, and underline mine; inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself, at link]

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... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences [in red, above] which apparently were removed at some later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through [or existing WITHIN] the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows



[I've made numerous posts on the subject of "pre-trib" so won't do so in this post]

Pre-tribbers believe that any one of us can be "persecuted" (even to the death) at any given time. In fact, we acknowledge (as did Paul) that the Thessalonians (even way back then) were enduring ongoing "tribulations and persecutions" per 2Th1:4.

So, this is not the position of "pre-tribbers" (to say such a thing).

"The Church which is His body" has been experiencing persecutions ever since the beginning of its existence on the earth in the first century [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; . . .

we are not awaiting the future 7-yr period in order to experience it ; l (it has been the experience of "the Church which is His body" throughout its history!)

Wow, I mean wow, seriously?

your gonna compare a brother or sister in Christ who believes God may come and rapture, or “catch up” the church before the final 7 years of daniel with heretical false teaching non believers, who know nothing about Christ.

this is sad, and might I add, very disturbing.

I think if we look at it, all future prophetic beliefs fit this same mold, be it pre-trib post trib premil or post mil.

sadly these doctrinal issues seem to be some of the most heated arguments in all of the church, and its sad

Actually if one truly studies all three of the pre mil theories (yes I call them theories) post trib has the least biblical support of them all.

i used to be an ardent pre-triber. I am not any more, because I spent a few years and actually studied all sides. and in the end, I have to admit, I really do not know what will happen. I do not believe any of us do, nor will we know until thing unfold

The rapture is not an actual return.

we meet him in the clouds

in his second return he return to earth, he meets us here. In Jerusalem, as the mount of olives is split in two

huge difference here, two events

Wrong

messiah came at the end of the 69th weak and was immediately cut off

then we are told events will occur after this happens

1. the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem, almost 4 decades later,
2. that the Site in Jerusalem will lie desolate through wars and a time that is to be determined, ending with a flood (still going on even today)
3. The the prince who is to come confirms something covenant with many for one week (7years)
4.in the middle of that week, he commits an abomination which causes desolation in the wing of the temple (most holy place)
5. Desolation is poured on the desolate, for a time determined
6 the end of the 70 weeks is culminated at the end of that time, we know it as the return of Christ.

Read revelation, god starts pouring his wrath And it lasts for quite a while

what you just did here is disprove post trib, as there is no time to rapture the church, send them all through the bema seat judgment, and return moments later

in fact, if we read, when God starts pouring his wrath by opening seals. the church is there witnessing those things, already raptured and already crowned and given robes of righteousness

Nope

the first part is peace. No wrath

The great tribulation does not come until after the abomination, Jesus makes this clear in matt 24

No it does not

get your facts straight man, any belief which comes from one passage is weak.
no one would believe a doctrine based on one passage alone

and ps, it is your interpretation that is erroneous

Jesus said this tribulation would be greater than ever has been or ever will be

this is because God does what he has always done, use the evil of men to inflict his wrath. He used babylon and rome to inflict his wrath on Judah, he used assyria to inflict his wrath on Israel, he used Israel to inflict his wrath on Canaan.

You job?

you just destroyed your own credibility there

its not your job to do anything

this is a non salvic issue, and all your doing is causing division in the body

any doctrine that causes division is dangerous. The same could be said of post trib and amil, dangerous for their own reason

whats more dangerous is attacking people and causing division i the church based on a doctrine that will determin no ones eternal destination.

Paul never preached the kingdom of heaven. In fact, Jesus told his disciples to preach the kingdom of heaven only to the Jews. It was/is not meant for samaritans or Gentiles.

No the church doesn't suffer God's wrath.

A pre-trib rapture isn't needed though for that. No other position believes the church suffer's God's wrath either. It's a false claim by the staunchest proponents of pre-trib that their's is the only possible way for God to protect the church.

It's not something I want to fall out with someone over. Where you place the rapture isn't a salvation issue.

The problem is it's usually the pre-trib proponents who become emotional, inflexible and behave as if it's a heresy issue.
It's the pre-tribbers who are usually unwilling to study and discuss scripture without presupposing the ready-made narrative onto it.

I was taught a pre-trib rapture for years as a young believer. I couldn't see it in my own bible study. It doesn't add up to me.
When any attempt to question the theory is met with anger, insults and accusations of doubting the word of God it made me more suspicious that there is something wrong with the theory. It's not a supporting doctrine of the faith, it's not a salvation issue, yet it's jealously guarded with a near-fanaticism.

I tell pr-tribbers all the time that I hope they are right. But I'm not going to blindly follow them over a (proverbial) cliff when I can plainly see warning signs that the teaching doesn't stand up to scriptural scrutiny.