The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

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Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#41
Mar 12, 2015
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#41
massorite said:
Please show me what verse in the Word of God tells us that "The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation" are for the unbelieving and the ungodly??? Show me some scripture. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is. Telling me anything about what the Word Of God say without quotture proves nothing at all and the undisputed truth is that a doctrine or belief without scripture to back up the belief is a FALSE TEACHING.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY (Resurrection day) SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION. THE SON OF PERDITION IS THE ANTICHRIST.
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply

Those who believe and teach that the Lord is going to keep His promise by first putting His bride through His wrath and then gathering them, are not truly believing that Jesus already experience God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Since this is the truth, then the wrath that all believers deserve has been satisfied. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath. If that were to happen, then the wrath that Jesus experienced would have been for nothing.

The reason that many believe and claim that the church is going to be present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, is because they don't understand the principle of what I just explained above and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, over half of the earths population will have been killed within that first 3 1/2 years and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the bowl judgments. Jesus described what the condition of the world would be when He returns to the earth to end the age saying"
Please don't tell me about false teachings unless you can produce scripture that proves that a Pre-Tribulation doctrine is proven by scripture.
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I already did produce scriptural proof in the last post. If you can't understand the meaning of the church not being appointed to suffer God's wrath and therefore not going through it, then I don't know how else to get the point across. According to your version, you have the Lord beating up His bride first and then coming to get her. You have the church being punished with the wicked.

The gist of the pre-tribulation (wrath of God) gathering of the church, is that because Jesus already experienced God's wrath, then the wrath of God no longer rests upon the believer and will not enter into that time of wrath. Get it?! Is that clear enough for you? And since God's wrath begins after the opening of the first seal, then the church must be removed prior to that first seal being opened.

So Show me some scriptural proof. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is.
You keep speaking of a period of "seven of wrath" , show me the scripture where it tells us that there will be seven years of the wrath of God
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Why should I repost the scripture when you just ignore them. Revelation chapter 6 thru 18 is a detailed account of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. That plagues of wrath is what is going to be taking place during that last seven years. By the way, the seven years (as I already posted) is defined in Daniel 9:27, is divided into two 3 1/2 year periods. Those two 3 1/2 year periods are also referred to in Revelation as 1260 days, a time, times and half a time and 42 months, which all equal 3 1/2 years. So please don't tell me that there is no seven year period.

I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply
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.
How about scripture from the book of Daniel.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
The above prophecy has never been fulfilled to date, and is still yet in our future. I submit to you that the horn in verse 21 is that antichrist, the war spoken of in this same verse is the great tribulation.
Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved. I Have never found any scripture that re-enforces a pre- tribulation doctrine.
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Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
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Verse 22 is not referring to the Resurrection day, but is referring to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. Prior to the Lord's return to the earth, His wrath must be completed, which would mean that the church would have to go through the entire wrath of God. But as I continue to make known to you, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Therefore, we must removed prior to God's wrath. The church will posses the kingdom during the millennial kingdom.

So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved.
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Who the antichrist/beast makes war with is not the church, but will be those great tribulation saints who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the tribulation period, introduced in Rev.7:9-17. If you will notice, the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" is used 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3. Then the word is never used again until Rev.22:16. After chapter 4 the word "hagios" translated as "saints" is used, which is referring to those great tribulation saints. The word church and saints is never used interchangeably in the book of Revelation.

In for support of the church being gathered prior to God's wrath, in Rev.19:6-8 the bride/church is revealed to be in heaven attending the wedding of the Lamb and will be receiving her fine linen, white and clean. Then in Rev.19:14, we see the bride/church wearing her fine linen and following the Lord out of heaven to the earth riding on white horses. We also have scripture in Revelation 17:14 showing the church returning with the Lord to the earth to fight against all of the nations at Armageddon:

The wedding of the Lamb to His bride the church which takes place in heaven during the tribulation period
================================================
“Hallelujah!

For our Lord God, the Almighty, reigns.

Let us rejoice and be glad

and give Him the glory.

For the marriage of the Lamb has come,

and His bride has made herself ready.

She was given clothing of fine linen,

bright and pure.”

After the wedding of the Lamb, the bride/church follows the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses:
==============================================
The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.


Revelation 17:14 supports the bride/church returning to the earth with the Lord:
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They (beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

Those "called, chosen and faithful followers, will be the bride/church, all of those who will have been changed and caught up prior to the time of God's wrath

The gathering of the church is a separate event from the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. The church will be removed prior to that first seal being opened.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#42
Mar 12, 2015
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#42
Nehemiah6 said:
When a person is in denial they will also deny what the verse actually says, and make it say what it does not mean. We see this over and over again.
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So true! It would be refreshing to see someone who has been deceived by false teachings to actually recognize the truth.
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#43
Aug 10, 2019
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#43
Ahwatukee said:
So true! It would be refreshing to see someone who has been deceived by false teachings to actually recognize the truth.
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Yes it would!

I hope and pray the Lord will somehow open your eyes to the truth about the End Times Scenario.
 
Ahwatukee

Ahwatukee

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#44
Mar 12, 2015
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#44
massorite said:
Please show me what verse in the Word of God tells us that "The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation" are for the unbelieving and the ungodly??? Show me some scripture. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is.
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The coming tribulation/great tribulation period is also known as "the Day of the Lord." This is what is going to take place during that time and to whom it is going to take place:

======================================
See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. (Matt.24:29)

I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (Matt.24:24-22)

Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.

=======================================

Though believers in Christ still have the sinful nature, our sins have been forgiven. We have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God through faith in Christ. Therefore, the bride/church will be removed from the earth and God will be pouring out His wrath upon the arrogant, the haughty, the prideful, the wicked and all who are still in their sins.

Why would you believe that God would punish the righteous with the wicked?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

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Jan 17, 2020
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Nehemiah6 said:
Here's some more FALSE DOCTRINE. One does not oppose one false doctrine with another which is equally false.

The Second Coming of Christ will NOT usher in the end of the world but the Millennial Kingdom of Christ. And since Jesus comes WITH His saints at angels at His Second Coming, it should be clear to all that He will firstly come FOR His saints at the Resurrection/Rapture.

Then the judgment of the works of the saints will take place in Heaven at the Judgment Seat of Christ, followed by the Marriage of the Lamb. Then after that Christ will come with His saints and angels to the battle of Armageddon, where He will destroy all His enemies. See Revelation 19 and many other Scriptures both in the OT and in the NT.
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The Millennium is a Pharisee doctrine condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Jesus refuted this doctrine many times in the gospels teaching the Kingdom is spiritual and not of this world.
 
massorite

massorite

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#47
Jan 3, 2015
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#47
Ahwatukee said:
The coming tribulation/great tribulation period is also known as "the Day of the Lord." This is what is going to take place during that time and to whom it is going to take place:

======================================
See, the day of the Lord is coming —a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.

The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. (Matt.24:29)

I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (Matt.24:24-22)

Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the Lord Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.

=======================================

Though believers in Christ still have the sinful nature, our sins have been forgiven. We have been credited with righteousness and reconciled to God through faith in Christ. Therefore, the bride/church will be removed from the earth and God will be pouring out His wrath upon the arrogant, the haughty, the prideful, the wicked and all who are still in their sins.

Why would you believe that God would punish the righteous with the wicked?
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Holy Moly what kind of Bible are you reading from???
According to you your version Matt 24: 22-24 says
I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (Matt.24:24-22)
The version I am using is a KJV and it says
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Where in the world does your Bible version get the idea that people will at any point be more scarce than pure gold and what about the part when verse 22 talks about the days of Tribulation (verse 21) shall be shortened for the elects sake. Your Bible version has completly removed that part of verse 22. Mr Ahwatukee, We are the elect in these verses 22 and 24. IT IS FOR OUR SAKE FOR WHOM THOSE DAYS WILL BE SHORTENED FOR!!! Your Bible version has been so radically changed that you can't use not even the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to look up the meaning of the word "Elect" or any other word in the verses because it has been removed from the scripture.
What happened to the warning about false Christs and false prophets in verse 24?? The warnings has been completely removed from your version of the Bible. What happened to the warning about the great signs and wonders that the false Christs will be performing???
I study from the KJV , the NKJV and several others and I have seen some radically changed Bibles But nothing compared to you Bible version. I don't even like the NIV but I am telling you now that you need to burn your Bible version up and through it into the Trash and get yourself an NIV.
I am sorry but at this point there is no way to have any Biblical discussion with you on any subject as long as you are using a bible version that completely destroys the Word Of God as we know it today.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#48
Dec 20, 2017
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#48
massorite said:
Holy Moly what kind of Bible are you reading from???
According to you your version Matt 24: 22-24 says
I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (Matt.24:24-22)
The version I am using is a KJV and it says
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Where in the world does your Bible version get the idea that people will at any point be more scarce than pure gold and what about the part when verse 22 talks about the days of Tribulation (verse 21) shall be shortened for the elects sake. Your Bible version has completly removed that part of verse 22. Mr Ahwatukee, We are the elect in these verses 22 and 24. IT IS FOR OUR SAKE FOR WHOM THOSE DAYS WILL BE SHORTENED FOR!!! Your Bible version has been so radically changed that you can't use not even the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to look up the meaning of the word "Elect" or any other word in the verses because it has been removed from the scripture.
What happened to the warning about false Christs and false prophets in verse 24?? The warnings has been completely removed from your version of the Bible. What happened to the warning about the great signs and wonders that the false Christs will be performing???
I study from the KJV , the NKJV and several others and I have seen some radically changed Bibles But nothing compared to you Bible version. I don't even like the NIV but I am telling you now that you need to burn your Bible version up and through it into the Trash and get yourself an NIV.
I am sorry but at this point there is no way to have any Biblical discussion with you on any subject as long as you are using a bible version that completely destroys the Word Of God as we know it today.
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I think it's an honest mistake. The NIV and the ESV are in agreement with the KJV on the verses you have quoted from Mathew 24.

Without the archaic language of course.

"I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir." (NIV) is Isaiah 13:12
 
J

John146

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#49
Jan 13, 2016
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#49
Dave-L said:
The Millennium is a Pharisee doctrine condemned as heresy by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Jesus refuted this doctrine many times in the gospels teaching the Kingdom is spiritual and not of this world.
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You need to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. They are not the same. One is physical and the other is spiritual.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#50
Jan 17, 2020
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#50
John146 said:
You need to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. They are not the same. One is physical and the other is spiritual.
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They are exactly the same. Here's but a few samples from scripture:

“the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)

“Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)

“the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)

“the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)

“The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)

“Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)

“Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)

Borrowed from: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....-the-kingdom-of-heaven-and-the-kingdom-of-god
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#51
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
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#51
massorite said:
Holy Moly what kind of Bible are you reading from???
According to you your version Matt 24: 22-24 says
I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins.

I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (Matt.24:24-22)
The version I am using is a KJV and it says
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Where in the world does your Bible version get the idea that people will at any point be more scarce than pure gold and what about the part when verse 22 talks about the days of Tribulation (verse 21) shall be shortened for the elects sake. Your Bible version has completly removed that part of verse 22. Mr Ahwatukee, We are the elect in these verses 22 and 24. IT IS FOR OUR SAKE FOR WHOM THOSE DAYS WILL BE SHORTENED FOR!!! Your Bible version has been so radically changed that you can't use not even the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to look up the meaning of the word "Elect" or any other word in the verses because it has been removed from the scripture.
What happened to the warning about false Christs and false prophets in verse 24?? The warnings has been completely removed from your version of the Bible. What happened to the warning about the great signs and wonders that the false Christs will be performing???
I study from the KJV , the NKJV and several others and I have seen some radically changed Bibles But nothing compared to you Bible version. I don't even like the NIV but I am telling you now that you need to burn your Bible version up and through it into the Trash and get yourself an NIV.
I am sorry but at this point there is no way to have any Biblical discussion with you on any subject as long as you are using a bible version that completely destroys the Word Of God as we know it today.
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There is /are 2 "elects"
Israel
The church.

The days of the gt are shortened by removal of that audience while the gt is in motion.

CLEARLY we see that group in rev 14.
A group removed DURING the gt. = God personally shortened their days in the gt.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#52
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#52
GaryA said:
Yes it would!

I hope and pray the Lord will somehow open your eyes to the truth about the End Times Scenario.
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The climax and apex of this church age is the groom coming for the bride. Not the church watchful for the other guy on the white horse.

Get that down and your path will AUTOMATICALLY align correctly.

It truly should be impossible to miss.
Seemingly impossible.
 
Absolutely

Absolutely

Banned
#53
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
#53
John146 said:
You need to understand the difference between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. They are not the same. One is physical and the other is spiritual.
Click to expand...
I see what you are saying and possibly agree to a small degree, but I think that was decisively debunked in the Pauline only thread.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#54
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
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#54
Dave-L said:
They are exactly the same. Here's but a few samples from scripture:

“the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” (Matt. 4:17) || “the kingdom of God is at hand” (Mark 1:15)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 5:3) || “Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20)

“Among those born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist, notwithstanding he who is least in the kingdom of Heaven is greater than him.” (Matt. 11:11) || “Among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than him.” (Luke 7:28)

“the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 13:11) || “the mysteries of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11 cp. Luke 8:10)

“the kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard seed” (Matt 13:31) || “the kingdom of God...is like a grain of mustard seed” (Mark 4:30-31 cp. Luke 13:18-19)

“The kingdom of Heaven is like leaven” (Matt. 13:33) || “the kingdom of God...is like leaven” (Luke 13:20)

“Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of Heaven” (Matt. 18:3-4) || “Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein” (Mark 10:15)

“Allow little children, and do not forbid them to come to me, for of such is the kingdom of Heaven.” (Matt. 19:14) || “Allow the little children to come to me, and do not forbid them, for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14 cp. Luke 18:16)

Borrowed from: https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....-the-kingdom-of-heaven-and-the-kingdom-of-god
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The Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are two different kingdoms in scripture. Simply put, the word "God" does not mean "Heaven". Making the two the same will cause problems and contradictions in the Bible.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." God is a spirit. God created the heaven, a physical place. The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom in which the spiritual people of God belong. The kingdom of heaven is a physical kingdom on earth promised to the physical people Israel.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The main message that Jesus Christ preached for Israel to the Jews was the Kingdom of Heaven(Matthew 4:23, 5:4, 8:11-12, 19:28, 20:16, 25:31-34). The Jews knew that this gospel that Jesus was preaching was the physical reign on earth(John 1:41,45,49, 6:14-15, 12:13). The disciples of Jesus Christ knew that the Kingdom of Heaven was on earth like King David and Solomon's kingdom. Notice in the below verse, Jesus does not rebuke them and this proves that it is physical.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#55
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#55
p_rehbein said:
Regarding the OP:

What do you have against paragraphs?

(just wondering)
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Very tedious read to be sure. I gave up after the 3rd sentence. Perhaps there is pre-paragraph, paragraph, and post-paragrpah. The OP seems to fit the latter.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#56
Jan 13, 2016
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#56
Absolutely said:
I see what you are saying and possibly agree to a small degree, but I think that was decisively debunked in the Pauline only thread.
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Paul never mentions the kingdom of heaven, only the kingdom of God. Paul knew the promised Jewish, physical kingdom was not to be preached because of the rejection of Jesus as their king. Only the kingdom of God is at hand now until the fullness of the Gentiles are come in.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

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Jan 17, 2020
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#57
John146 said:
The Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are two different kingdoms in scripture. Simply put, the word "God" does not mean "Heaven". Making the two the same will cause problems and contradictions in the Bible.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." God is a spirit. God created the heaven, a physical place. The kingdom of God is a spiritual kingdom in which the spiritual people of God belong. The kingdom of heaven is a physical kingdom on earth promised to the physical people Israel.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

The main message that Jesus Christ preached for Israel to the Jews was the Kingdom of Heaven(Matthew 4:23, 5:4, 8:11-12, 19:28, 20:16, 25:31-34). The Jews knew that this gospel that Jesus was preaching was the physical reign on earth(John 1:41,45,49, 6:14-15, 12:13). The disciples of Jesus Christ knew that the Kingdom of Heaven was on earth like King David and Solomon's kingdom. Notice in the below verse, Jesus does not rebuke them and this proves that it is physical.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
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Do you think the Christ-rejecting Jews got it right? That is why they killed him. Because he didn't line up with their idea of the Kingdom.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#58
#58
Dave-L said:
All of Dispensationalism comes from a GAP between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks scripture does not mention. From there it cuts and pastes scripture out of context to paint in its scheme. They deny Jesus fulfilled the 70 weeks as written. They turn him into Antichrist. And develop a chain of false prophecy based on that calling for a restored Roman Empire. Because that was the setting the 70th week took part in. The kingdom did come during the 70th week but since they and the Pharisees looked for a physical kingdom, they missed it. The Kingdom came but it was spiritual.
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This just proves you lack of knowledge of what dispensations are
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
#59
massorite said:
Yes and I love a challenge and to challenge. I will always back up what I preach with researched scripture. The letter from Ms. Margaret MacDonald is real, can be found and in depth research will find that some big name preachers of the past participated in the spread of the Pre-Trib Doctrine. In spite of what the word of God says in 2 Thess. 2:1-5 and the fact that the so called seven years of the wrath of God are never mentioned in the Bible, nor are the words "seven years of Tribulation" written anywhere in scripture. Pre-Tribber's also believe that the 144,000 will go about the earth "Re-Evangelizing" a whole new body of Christ after the first body of Christ is taken up. But that function of the 144,000 con not be found written anywhere in the Word of GOD neither. The 144,000 are born, raised, sealed and stay in Israel because they are not intended to minister to the lost anywhere else in the world. Their ministry is to the Jew only.
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Your facts are wrong your arguments are without merit

First there is not 7 years of tribulation the tribulation is said to be app 3.5 years or immediately following the abomination of desolation until the return of christ
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#60
Jan 13, 2016
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#60
Dave-L said:
Do you think the Christ-rejecting Jews got it right? That is why they killed him. Because he didn't line up with their idea of the Kingdom.
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They rejected Christ as king of the Jews so they crucified him. Jesus claimed he was the Messiah, the son of God. After that, they rejected his death, burial and resurrection so the physical kingdom was postponed. Before the physical could be given, the spiritual had to be believed. This will take place in the great tribulation before the return of the King.
 
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