The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman
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"Pre-Trubber's" . "Free-Willers". Makes one go, hmmmm. 
Therefore, your argument is that the pre-tribulation rapture is not stated in writing anywhere in scripture?
Rather than preach here at yet another site that the pre-tribulation rapture is delusion from the mind of a Scottish woman in the 1800's, why not tell us what you do believe about the end times, and Revelation?[/QUOT]
Ok. There is no such a thing as seven years of the wrath of God written anywhere in the Bible nor is there found in scripture any reference to a seven year period of Tribulation. The wrath of God is speaking of punishment and we are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God. 2 Tess 2:1-4 are quite clear in that the antichrist will be on the world scene doing what it is he does best, which is persecuting the people of God before the Resurrection day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Pre-Tribber's believe that we will be "raptured" out of this world before the antichrist come on the world scene.
However 2 Thess 1:4 tells us that the day of Christ/Resurrection day will not come until after the antichrist has been revealed just as 2 Thess 2:3 says. I also take into consideration verses from all over the Bible which tell us that the antichrist will be here to persecute us before the Resurrection.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
In verse 21 the horn is the antichrist and here again the antichrist makes war against the saints of the future because these two verses are still yet to be fulfilled
I believe not from any doctrinal teaching of any man but from what the Word of God says and my research of the Word of God that we will still be here on the earth during a period of Great Tribulation but will be removed from earth before the wrath comes to earth.
I believe in a seven year period in which both a period of Great Tribulation will take place first and after that another period of the wrath of God will be brought to earth. The Grace of GOD is at this point dominant on the earth, But when the wrath of God comes to earth it will be impossible for the Grace of God and the Wrath of God to be on the earth at the same time. It would be like trying to mix oil and water, which is why there will not be a second chance to be saved as the Pre-Tribber's believe. If we are not ready in Christ when Christ returns we will be left behind and suffer the wrath of God with no second chance to repent and be saved and I can back up my beliefs with scripture. That is why I hammer on the fact that there is no such scripture that says "there will be seven years of the wrath of God". Because without scriptural proof that there will be seven years of the wrath of God that so many like Nehemiah6 and Ahwatukee preach it blows the whole Pre-Tribulation doctrine out of the water. Why? Because a seven years period of the Wrath of God is central to the Doctrinal belief and without a scripture that say "seven years of the wrath of God" the whole Doctrine is put to shame. The Bible does tell us about a period of seven years but never says that the period of seven years will be filled with the wrath of God.
If you believe that you will be here for a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you are resurrected by Christ before a period of Great Tribulation, It will be Praise God. But if you believe that you will be raptured out of earth before a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you find yourself in a period of Great Tribulation, Who are you going to blame for believing you would be raptured out and weren't??? I can quote much more scripture to back up what I teach if needed.
Therefore, your argument is that the pre-tribulation rapture is not stated in writing anywhere in scripture?
Rather than preach here at yet another site that the pre-tribulation rapture is delusion from the mind of a Scottish woman in the 1800's, why not tell us what you do believe about the end times, and Revelation?[/QUOT]
Ok. There is no such a thing as seven years of the wrath of God written anywhere in the Bible nor is there found in scripture any reference to a seven year period of Tribulation. The wrath of God is speaking of punishment and we are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God. 2 Tess 2:1-4 are quite clear in that the antichrist will be on the world scene doing what it is he does best, which is persecuting the people of God before the Resurrection day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Pre-Tribber's believe that we will be "raptured" out of this world before the antichrist come on the world scene.
However 2 Thess 1:4 tells us that the day of Christ/Resurrection day will not come until after the antichrist has been revealed just as 2 Thess 2:3 says. I also take into consideration verses from all over the Bible which tell us that the antichrist will be here to persecute us before the Resurrection.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
In verse 21 the horn is the antichrist and here again the antichrist makes war against the saints of the future because these two verses are still yet to be fulfilled
I believe not from any doctrinal teaching of any man but from what the Word of God says and my research of the Word of God that we will still be here on the earth during a period of Great Tribulation but will be removed from earth before the wrath comes to earth.
I believe in a seven year period in which both a period of Great Tribulation will take place first and after that another period of the wrath of God will be brought to earth. The Grace of GOD is at this point dominant on the earth, But when the wrath of God comes to earth it will be impossible for the Grace of God and the Wrath of God to be on the earth at the same time. It would be like trying to mix oil and water, which is why there will not be a second chance to be saved as the Pre-Tribber's believe. If we are not ready in Christ when Christ returns we will be left behind and suffer the wrath of God with no second chance to repent and be saved and I can back up my beliefs with scripture. That is why I hammer on the fact that there is no such scripture that says "there will be seven years of the wrath of God". Because without scriptural proof that there will be seven years of the wrath of God that so many like Nehemiah6 and Ahwatukee preach it blows the whole Pre-Tribulation doctrine out of the water. Why? Because a seven years period of the Wrath of God is central to the Doctrinal belief and without a scripture that say "seven years of the wrath of God" the whole Doctrine is put to shame. The Bible does tell us about a period of seven years but never says that the period of seven years will be filled with the wrath of God.
If you believe that you will be here for a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you are resurrected by Christ before a period of Great Tribulation, It will be Praise God. But if you believe that you will be raptured out of earth before a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you find yourself in a period of Great Tribulation, Who are you going to blame for believing you would be raptured out and weren't??? I can quote much more scripture to back up what I teach if needed.
You have been proven false. The Apostle Saul/Paul, did so in his epistles to the churches in Thessalonica Greece.
Telling me I have been proven wrong is proving nothing. Please show me some scripture that proves me wrong. Or are you unable to or are you refusing to provide scripture.
Sorry but I don't believe that the Bible Alludes to, leads us to believe, suggests or any other kind of nonfactual suggestions at all. Alluding to something is like throwing in a fact that doesn't exist. The Word of God either says it out right or it doesn't.
If it is not written in the Word of God it is not.
That is why I challenge folks to provide scripture because with scripture there is no doubt about what the Bible is teaching.
So in essence you have provided zero scripture that proves me wrong and that is my point. If the belief is aligned with the Word Of God the is Scripture that proves that the belief is in dee aligned with the Word of God. So without clear scripture to prove the belief is aligned with the Bible the belief is false.
Telling me I have been proven wrong is proving nothing. Please show me some scripture that proves me wrong. Or are you unable to or are you refusing to provide scripture.
Sorry but I don't believe that the Bible Alludes to, leads us to believe, suggests or any other kind of nonfactual suggestions at all. Alluding to something is like throwing in a fact that doesn't exist. The Word of God either says it out right or it doesn't.
If it is not written in the Word of God it is not.
That is why I challenge folks to provide scripture because with scripture there is no doubt about what the Bible is teaching.
So in essence you have provided zero scripture that proves me wrong and that is my point. If the belief is aligned with the Word Of God the is Scripture that proves that the belief is in dee aligned with the Word of God. So without clear scripture to prove the belief is aligned with the Bible the belief is false.
You have been proven wrong. And as you ignore the scripture links to that end, it does not mean I did not post them to prove my point.
And OK, have it your way. Allow me to rephrase.
The epistles of the Apostle Saul/Paul in his writings to the church in Thessalonica Greece refer to what you call the pre-tribulation resurrection. Which is the wrong word actually because it is the rapture, (the word itself does not appear in the Bible. Rather, the reference to being caught up or,caught away, is the wording replaced in some versions by the Latin, from 'raptus', rapture). since both the living and the dead in Christ arise. The dead preceding those who are alive and in Christ.
John's Book of Revelation chapter 3
And OK, have it your way. Allow me to rephrase.
The epistles of the Apostle Saul/Paul in his writings to the church in Thessalonica Greece refer to what you call the pre-tribulation resurrection. Which is the wrong word actually because it is the rapture, (the word itself does not appear in the Bible. Rather, the reference to being caught up or,caught away, is the wording replaced in some versions by the Latin, from 'raptus', rapture). since both the living and the dead in Christ arise. The dead preceding those who are alive and in Christ.
John's Book of Revelation chapter 3
Shall I just choose any random number of passages, as long as I consider them to be counted as 'many'?
(haha)
John 14:1-3 has no time-based indicators that specify when Christians would find themselves in the 'place' that Jesus went to prepare for them -- and, certainly not relative to the events of the End Times Scenario.
I believe that Jesus was talking about the New Jerusalem city.
Care to try to explain why this suggested idea simply cannot possibly be valid?
Also:
In verse 3, Jesus says "that where I am, there ye may be also" - not "and take you to heaven"...
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus will come get a bunch of people and [shortly thereafter] take them to heaven.
(haha)
John 14:1-3 has no time-based indicators that specify when Christians would find themselves in the 'place' that Jesus went to prepare for them -- and, certainly not relative to the events of the End Times Scenario.
I believe that Jesus was talking about the New Jerusalem city.
Care to try to explain why this suggested idea simply cannot possibly be valid?
Also:
In verse 3, Jesus says "that where I am, there ye may be also" - not "and take you to heaven"...
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus will come get a bunch of people and [shortly thereafter] take them to heaven.
But, are you aware that those events are characteristically linked to the time of the Two Witnesses? (which is also the time of the 'Trumpet' events) After which, Jesus returns and the Wrath of God is "poured out" upon the earth? And that, the Wrath of God is supposed by some as happening during the Great Tribulation? All of which actually occurs after the end of the Great Tribulation?
The epistles of the Apostle Saul/Paul in his writings to the church in Thessalonica Greece refer to what you call the pre-tribulation resurrection.
So you are still refusing to provide one or more scriptures that prove a Pre-Trib Doctrinal belief aligns with the Word Of God?
The reason I am challenging you to provide scripture to prove that Pre-Trib is spoken of in the Word of God is because I already know that you will never find any scripture that proves the Pre-Trib/Rapture doctrinal belief is spoken of in the Bible.
Just exactly which verse or verses you claim "refer" to the Pre-Trib/Rapture???
Again, please put your scripture where your mouth is. Because I put scripture where my mouth is!
Here is the scripture I am quoting to prove that the Resurrection does not happen until
"AFTER" a period of Great Tribulation
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
According to the Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon and the Strong's the word "ELECT" in verse 31 is talking about "the chosen of God". I don't know what you call yourself but I am one of the chosen of God and I will be Resurrected "Immediately after the tribulation of those days "
How can any student of the Bible simply skip over the context of these 3 verses and believe a Pre-Trib doctrinal belief when right and in front of your face it says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". The word "Tribulation" in verse 29 means and is talking about "affliction" not the Wrath of God which always means "punishment". The punishment of God and affliction are two different words which have two different meanings and are speking of two different events.
So you are still refusing to provide one or more scriptures that prove a Pre-Trib Doctrinal belief aligns with the Word Of God?
The reason I am challenging you to provide scripture to prove that Pre-Trib is spoken of in the Word of God is because I already know that you will never find any scripture that proves the Pre-Trib/Rapture doctrinal belief is spoken of in the Bible.
Just exactly which verse or verses you claim "refer" to the Pre-Trib/Rapture???
Again, please put your scripture where your mouth is. Because I put scripture where my mouth is!
Here is the scripture I am quoting to prove that the Resurrection does not happen until
"AFTER" a period of Great Tribulation
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
According to the Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon and the Strong's the word "ELECT" in verse 31 is talking about "the chosen of God". I don't know what you call yourself but I am one of the chosen of God and I will be Resurrected "Immediately after the tribulation of those days "
How can any student of the Bible simply skip over the context of these 3 verses and believe a Pre-Trib doctrinal belief when right and in front of your face it says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". The word "Tribulation" in verse 29 means and is talking about "affliction" not the Wrath of God which always means "punishment". The punishment of God and affliction are two different words which have two different meanings and are speking of two different events.
