The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

Please show me what verse in the Word of God tells us that "The Tribulation and the Great Tribulation" are for the unbelieving and the ungodly??? Show me some scripture. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is. Telling me anything about what the Word Of God say without quotture proves nothing at all and the undisputed truth is that a doctrine or belief without scripture to back up the belief is a FALSE TEACHING.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: FOR THAT DAY (Resurrection day) SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION. THE SON OF PERDITION IS THE ANTICHRIST.
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply


"Those who believe and teach that the Lord is going to keep His promise by first putting His bride through His wrath and then gathering them, are not truly believing that Jesus already experience God's wrath, satisfying it completely. Since this is the truth, then the wrath that all believers deserve has been satisfied. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath. If that were to happen, then the wrath that Jesus experienced would have been for nothing.

The reason that many believe and claim that the church is going to be present on the earth during the time of God's wrath, is because they don't understand the principle of what I just explained above and they don't understand the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, over half of the earths population will have been killed within that first 3 1/2 years and that is not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1,2 and 3, nor the fatalities resulting from the bowl judgments. Jesus described what the condition of the world would be when He returns to the earth to end the age saying"
Please don't tell me about false teachings unless you can produce scripture that proves that a Pre-Tribulation doctrine is proven by scripture.
So Show me some scriptural proof. Prove me wrong. Put your scripture where your mouth is.
You keep speaking of a period of "seven of wrath" , show me the scripture where it tells us that there will be seven years of the wrath of God
I am not afraid of changing what I believe the Bible says but I need scripture that proves me wrong. Please keep it in your mind that I sit here with my research book beside me and before I do any replies I research my answer first before I reply.
How about scripture from the book of Daniel.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
The above prophecy has never been fulfilled to date, and is still yet in our future. I submit to you that the horn in verse 21 is that antichrist, the war spoken of in this same verse is the great tribulation.
Verse 22 is talking about Resurrection day and we all know that when Resurrection day come we will all possessed the kingdom.
So the big question is "what saints will the horn/antichrist be making war against??? Is it us or will it be those left behind??? If it is those left behind where is the scripture that proves there is a second chance to be saved. I Have never found any scripture that re-enforces a pre- tribulation doctrine.

"Pre-Trubber's" . "Free-Willers". Makes one go, hmmmm.
Therefore, your argument is that the pre-tribulation rapture is not stated in writing anywhere in scripture?

Rather than preach here at yet another site that the pre-tribulation rapture is delusion from the mind of a Scottish woman in the 1800's, why not tell us what you do believe about the end times, and Revelation?[/QUOT]
Ok. There is no such a thing as seven years of the wrath of God written anywhere in the Bible nor is there found in scripture any reference to a seven year period of Tribulation. The wrath of God is speaking of punishment and we are not appointed to suffer the wrath of God. 2 Tess 2:1-4 are quite clear in that the antichrist will be on the world scene doing what it is he does best, which is persecuting the people of God before the Resurrection day.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Pre-Tribber's believe that we will be "raptured" out of this world before the antichrist come on the world scene.
However 2 Thess 1:4 tells us that the day of Christ/Resurrection day will not come until after the antichrist has been revealed just as 2 Thess 2:3 says. I also take into consideration verses from all over the Bible which tell us that the antichrist will be here to persecute us before the Resurrection.
Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
In verse 21 the horn is the antichrist and here again the antichrist makes war against the saints of the future because these two verses are still yet to be fulfilled
I believe not from any doctrinal teaching of any man but from what the Word of God says and my research of the Word of God that we will still be here on the earth during a period of Great Tribulation but will be removed from earth before the wrath comes to earth.
I believe in a seven year period in which both a period of Great Tribulation will take place first and after that another period of the wrath of God will be brought to earth. The Grace of GOD is at this point dominant on the earth, But when the wrath of God comes to earth it will be impossible for the Grace of God and the Wrath of God to be on the earth at the same time. It would be like trying to mix oil and water, which is why there will not be a second chance to be saved as the Pre-Tribber's believe. If we are not ready in Christ when Christ returns we will be left behind and suffer the wrath of God with no second chance to repent and be saved and I can back up my beliefs with scripture. That is why I hammer on the fact that there is no such scripture that says "there will be seven years of the wrath of God". Because without scriptural proof that there will be seven years of the wrath of God that so many like Nehemiah6 and Ahwatukee preach it blows the whole Pre-Tribulation doctrine out of the water. Why? Because a seven years period of the Wrath of God is central to the Doctrinal belief and without a scripture that say "seven years of the wrath of God" the whole Doctrine is put to shame. The Bible does tell us about a period of seven years but never says that the period of seven years will be filled with the wrath of God.
If you believe that you will be here for a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you are resurrected by Christ before a period of Great Tribulation, It will be Praise God. But if you believe that you will be raptured out of earth before a period of Great Tribulation and suddenly you find yourself in a period of Great Tribulation, Who are you going to blame for believing you would be raptured out and weren't??? I can quote much more scripture to back up what I teach if needed.

You have been proven false. The Apostle Saul/Paul, did so in his epistles to the churches in Thessalonica Greece.

You avoided the prior question. What is your Eschatological belief about the second coming of our Lord?[

There are Christians today who are looking for that very thing, a physical kingdom.

I read that ..what is being talked about here and went seeking. What I found was a man that wrote hymns and was a preacher. He wrote about believers being caught up before the great tribulation. This was written in about 300-400AD. Then I watched on TV a Christian channel this man (forgot his name. Can see his face lol) that is gone home now. He on this show was talking about this same Hymn writer and showed the scrolls. And found even earlier scrolls from others talking about caught up PRE TRIB.

This DOES NOT prove PRE TRIB is right. But does prove that they did in fact talk preach about it.

What was the name of the Hymn? I have a book, the Dictionary of Early Chruch Beliefs by David Bercot and the Pre-Tribulation doctrine didn't exist in the early church before 300 AD.

You have been proven false. The Apostle Saul/Paul, did so in his epistles to the churches in Thessalonica Greece.

You avoided the prior question. What is your Eschatological belief about the second coming of our Lord?

The epistles of Saul/Paul that include allusion to what you call the pre-tribulation rapture are dated far earlier than 300 AD.

You have been proven false. The Apostle Saul/Paul, did so in his epistles to the churches in Thessalonica Greece.
Telling me I have been proven wrong is proving nothing. Please show me some scripture that proves me wrong. Or are you unable to or are you refusing to provide scripture.

Sorry but I don't believe that the Bible Alludes to, leads us to believe, suggests or any other kind of nonfactual suggestions at all. Alluding to something is like throwing in a fact that doesn't exist. The Word of God either says it out right or it doesn't.
If it is not written in the Word of God it is not.
That is why I challenge folks to provide scripture because with scripture there is no doubt about what the Bible is teaching.
So in essence you have provided zero scripture that proves me wrong and that is my point. If the belief is aligned with the Word Of God the is Scripture that proves that the belief is in dee aligned with the Word of God. So without clear scripture to prove the belief is aligned with the Bible the belief is false.

See John 14:1-3 and many other passages.

And you will not find the words "church" or "churches" from Revelation chapter 6 onwards (which describe the events of the Tribulation and Great Tribulation).

This statement is totally meaningless in comparison to actual verses in the Word of God that very blatently and bluntly say things like "Immediately after the tribulation of those days"...

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jesus will come get a bunch of people and [shortly thereafter] take them to heaven.

Sure. And that in with reference to the catacysmic cosmic events which take place immediately after the Great Tribulation. But there is no mention of the Church or churches in this context either.

Well go and check out John 14:1-3 and then all related passages. That is exactly what they say. You are evidently in denial but that does not change Bible FACTS.

You are evidently in denial but that does not change Bible FACTS.

You have been proven wrong. And as you ignore the scripture links to that end, it does not mean I did not post them to prove my point.

And OK, have it your way. Allow me to rephrase.
The epistles of the Apostle Saul/Paul in his writings to the church in Thessalonica Greece refer to what you call the pre-tribulation resurrection. Which is the wrong word actually because it is the rapture, (the word itself does not appear in the Bible. Rather, the reference to being caught up or,caught away, is the wording replaced in some versions by the Latin, from 'raptus', rapture). since both the living and the dead in Christ arise. The dead preceding those who are alive and in Christ.
John's Book of Revelation chapter 3

The epistles of the Apostle Saul/Paul in his writings to the church in Thessalonica Greece refer to what you call the pre-tribulation resurrection.
So you are still refusing to provide one or more scriptures that prove a Pre-Trib Doctrinal belief aligns with the Word Of God?
The reason I am challenging you to provide scripture to prove that Pre-Trib is spoken of in the Word of God is because I already know that you will never find any scripture that proves the Pre-Trib/Rapture doctrinal belief is spoken of in the Bible.
Just exactly which verse or verses you claim "refer" to the Pre-Trib/Rapture???
Again, please put your scripture where your mouth is. Because I put scripture where my mouth is!
Here is the scripture I am quoting to prove that the Resurrection does not happen until
"AFTER" a period of Great Tribulation
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
According to the Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon and the Strong's the word "ELECT" in verse 31 is talking about "the chosen of God". I don't know what you call yourself but I am one of the chosen of God and I will be Resurrected "Immediately after the tribulation of those days "
How can any student of the Bible simply skip over the context of these 3 verses and believe a Pre-Trib doctrinal belief when right and in front of your face it says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days". The word "Tribulation" in verse 29 means and is talking about "affliction" not the Wrath of God which always means "punishment". The punishment of God and affliction are two different words which have two different meanings and are speking of two different events.

It's like the OP is pressed to tell us "nobody cooks hamburgers correctly" but at the same time can't tell us their correct procedure .

Show me the verses of scripture that [actually] say that exactly.

When a person is in denial they will also deny what the verse actually says, and make it say what it does not mean. We see this over and over again.

Its not that difficult to understand that we are still experiencing the wrath of the great tribulation called the last days. According to Romans it is being reveled from heaven

Its easy to see where it began as that like never before or ever again called the reformation .Religion lost a outward face to relate to .The time period was over. God had given over the faithless Jew to do what the should not of. The abomination of desolation things seen standing in the place of faith the unseen glory of God. . usurped by the things of men.

No sign as a wonder in respect to another kind of ending other than the last day . The time period shorted for the elect is called last days . headed toward the last. When death as to the letter of the law will be cast in the fiery judgement of God.. . never to rise and condemn through corruption another entire creation ever again.

Matthew 24:20-22 King James Version (KJV) But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

God is not a man as us. He has no begining.

Matthew 24:25-26 King James Version (KJV) Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Again called the last day .Not the day of on going vacation in a hideout and then returning in a new body neither male nor female, Jew no gentile living amongst Zombies. That's more Hollywood I would think. .