If the Church Won't, the Government Will

It happens every third Sunday. Most pastors in the U.S. will get behind the podium, shaking their fists, railing against the forces behind socialism in America. They lament about the demise of our society and how the Democrats are ruining the American way of life. The candidates for president are all socialists, and socialism, they say, leads to communism, and communism will destroy our country!

Communism defined

Communism: (from Latin communis, "common, universal") is a philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state. -- Wikipedia

Was the early church made up of communists?

The early church can be thought of as communistic in its purest form:

And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. Acts 2: 42-47

Much different than Marxism

The manner in which these early Christians lived was far removed from Marxist ideology. However, the basic tenants of communism are the same:

• They lived in close proximity to one another.
• They gave freely of their time and possessions so that no one would go without the basic necessities of life.
• They ate together, prayed together, and there was a real sense of community.

The difference between this and the Marxist ideal is that there was no government mandate. These early believers gave of themselves, without the need for bureaucratic coercion. They were a benevolent society, much like the churches in America used to be; the churches that have recently succumbed to corporate capitalism.


Is capitalism evil?

A capitalist system has proven very useful to the growth and overall well-being of any country that adopts it. It has proven far superior to any socialist/ communist scheme that has ever been tried in the past. A free-market economy will always work better. However, capitalism should never be part of the underlying structure of any church organization. It should remain a tight-knit, benevolent society of believers who share each other's burdens.

Why are churches in the U.S. no longer benevolent?

There are two parts to most church budgets: the mortgage payment and staff compensation ( salaries, housing allowance, and health care benefits). These two major items usually consume at least 85% of what the church brings in through tithes and offerings. 5% goes to maintain the building. Another 5% goes to marketing (most churches don't like to call it that, but in reality, that is what it is). The amount remaining, about 5%, is usually divided between mission work and a paultry "benevolent fund."

With churches in the U.S. so strapped for cash, it is no wonder they have trouble serving their communities. There is not much room in the budget to open a food pantry. Single parents now look to the government for help in raising their children instead of their churches. Alcoholics and drug addicts find support through city and county programs. These struggling victims of Satan's attacks know better than to ask a pastor at a local church. They have experienced a cold shoulder one-too-many times!

What is the solution?

Here are a few suggestions for the followers of Christ to serve their communities rather than rely solely on the government:

1. Sell your church building and give the money to the poor
2. Take the money you usually tithe to the church and give it to someone who actually needs it
3. There are 168 hours in a week. Most churches utilize their building for only a few hours a week. Make it a goal to open it to the public at least three times what you do now.
4. Rent the church building out to other organizations during the week. Use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage in half the time.
5. Turn your church building into a homeless shelter.
6. Go back to having fund-raisers instead of asking each member of the church to put the financial well being of their families at risk.

By merely suggesting these solutions to the church hierarchy, a lowly parishioner may be chastised. However, it is essential to remember that if the church does not get involved with the local community, the government is all-too-willing, at great cost to the American taxpayer!

The early church practices are in no way aligned with Communism.

Communism is based upon revolution and economic compulsion.

No parallels exist.

The early church practices are in no way aligned with Communism.

Communism is based upon revolution and economic compulsion.

No parallels exist.

You're close, but actually communism is based on a total lie, hence the symptoms of violent revolutions, economic destruction, and famine that follow all those foolish enough to try to make the lie real.

Agree.

I should have added that in.

They were not foolish though, many knew exactly what they were doing and they did it for a reason.

The early church practices are in no way aligned with Communism.

Communism is based upon revolution and economic compulsion.

No parallels exist.

Sell your church building and give the money to the poor

Take the money you usually tithe to the church and give it to someone who actually needs it

There are 168 hours in a week. Most churches utilize their building for only a few hours a week. Make it a goal to open it to the public at least three times what you do now.

Rent the church building out to other organizations during the week. Use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage in half the time.

Turn your church building into a homeless shelter.Go back to having fund-raisers instead of asking each member of the church to put the financial well being of their families at risk.

I figured I would get a response like this from someone. I think you are missing the point of my post.

Simply put, if the churches don't step up, we will eventually have a socialist state, which could lead to communism.

It happens every third Sunday. Most pastors in the U.S. will get behind the podium, shaking their fists, railing against the forces behind socialism in America. They lament about the demise of our society and how the Democrats are ruining the American way of life. The candidates for president are all socialists, and socialism, they say, leads to communism, and communism will destroy our country!

Communism defined

Communism: (from Latin communis, "common, universal") is a philosophical, social, political and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state. -- Wikipedia

Was the early church made up of communists?

The early church can be thought of as communistic in its purest form:

And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved. Acts 2: 42-47

Much different than Marxism

The manner in which these early Christians lived was far removed from Marxist ideology. However, the basic tenants of communism are the same:

• They lived in close proximity to one another.
• They gave freely of their time and possessions so that no one would go without the basic necessities of life.
• They ate together, prayed together, and there was a real sense of community.

The difference between this and the Marxist ideal is that there was no government mandate. These early believers gave of themselves, without the need for bureaucratic coercion. They were a benevolent society, much like the churches in America used to be; the churches that have recently succumbed to corporate capitalism.


Is capitalism evil?

A capitalist system has proven very useful to the growth and overall well-being of any country that adopts it. It has proven far superior to any socialist/ communist scheme that has ever been tried in the past. A free-market economy will always work better. However, capitalism should never be part of the underlying structure of any church organization. It should remain a tight-knit, benevolent society of believers who share each other's burdens.

Why are churches in the U.S. no longer benevolent?

There are two parts to most church budgets: the mortgage payment and staff compensation ( salaries, housing allowance, and health care benefits). These two major items usually consume at least 85% of what the church brings in through tithes and offerings. 5% goes to maintain the building. Another 5% goes to marketing (most churches don't like to call it that, but in reality, that is what it is). The amount remaining, about 5%, is usually divided between mission work and a paultry "benevolent fund."

With churches in the U.S. so strapped for cash, it is no wonder they have trouble serving their communities. There is not much room in the budget to open a food pantry. Single parents now look to the government for help in raising their children instead of their churches. Alcoholics and drug addicts find support through city and county programs. These struggling victims of Satan's attacks know better than to ask a pastor at a local church. They have experienced a cold shoulder one-too-many times!

What is the solution?

Here are a few suggestions for the followers of Christ to serve their communities rather than rely solely on the government:

1. Sell your church building and give the money to the poor
2. Take the money you usually tithe to the church and give it to someone who actually needs it
3. There are 168 hours in a week. Most churches utilize their building for only a few hours a week. Make it a goal to open it to the public at least three times what you do now.
4. Rent the church building out to other organizations during the week. Use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage in half the time.
5. Turn your church building into a homeless shelter.
6. Go back to having fund-raisers instead of asking each member of the church to put the financial well being of their families at risk.

By merely suggesting these solutions to the church hierarchy, a lowly parishioner may be chastised. However, it is essential to remember that if the church does not get involved with the local community, the government is all-too-willing, at great cost to the American taxpayer!

They were not foolish though, many knew exactly what they were doing and they did it for a reason.

Pastors and other church leaders are so afraid of communism that it has clouded their judgment.

There needs to be a distinction between a benevolent society like the one displayed by the early church and Marxism, which is what you are so adamant about.

But herein lies the problem. Pastors and other church leaders are so afraid of communism that it has clouded their judgment. For example, they often say to themselves, if not to their congregations:

"If we give our money to the poor, we may be labeled communists. We certainly don't want to go against the conservatives, since most of our big donors are aligned with that group."

"If we start giving stuff away, here comes a bunch of other free-loaders on the gravy train."

"My time is valuable. I spent a lot of money going to school. Why should I spend time counseling someone when they are just going to fall back into their own trap."

" This is something the socialist Democrats do."

And on and on it goes... Our church leaders are so afraid of the right-wing of the Republican party, they have forgotten why they are in business-- to serve. Jesus didn't go into the ministry with the idea of erecting a building, throwing 100 people in it, having a sermon every week, and then spending the other 164 hours that week preparing for "another awesome sermon."

Instead, Jesus did this:

He preached Matt. 5

He healed the sick Matt 8.

He trained His disciples Matt 10.

He taught Matt. 13.

He evangelized John 4.

He fed 5,000 people John 6

He washed the disciple's feet John 13.

He did all this without a building, a group of elders, a music band complete with stages and lights, a college degree, a new house, or a new car. He had nothing:

Now when Jesus saw a crowd around him, he gave orders to go over to the other side. And a scribe came up and said to him, "Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head." Matt. 8: 18-20


I wonder if Franklin Graham would be willing to give up his $30 million net worth to follow the same example.

Turn your church building into a homeless shelter.

Which means that you will be without a meeting place. Then you will have to go to the government and ask them to rent you one of their facilities.

Can you give me any example at all of any pastor or priest anywhere that is afraid of being labled a communist because they give to the poor? Ever?

Can you tell me how much I give to the poor? Or any one in particular in this very small number of Christianchat participants? Or even Franklin Graham whom you cited? My guess is you don't know.

And while you gave good examples of what Jesus did do, let me tell you what He didn't do, and that is to enforce His way of benevolence by using the law and subsequent sword of the Roman Empire.

We can meet with each other just fine without spending millions of dollars on buildings.

To suggest that those with church buildings should sell them off and distribute the proceeds to the poor is both naive and foolish. There is no demand for church buildings as residences, so chances are a cult might show up and purchase that building to promote its cultic beliefs. And that would certainly be unacceptable.