Not By Works

Oh they are not paid by church people.

The "venom" on this site can't even com close to the venom on that old site "bible discussion" forum. Constant hate spewed forth from atheists, moderators admonishing those who stood up for the Word of God.

My devotion in John chapter 3 this morning re-enforcing how works cannot save us but only our faith in Jesus Christ.

That is not good.

See those outside OSAS rarely bother me no matter what they say towards me
.... it is when I consider someone a brother or sister, that is when it becomes more difficult.... imho

I think Romans 7 explains very well how it is that all believers, Jew and gentile, are dead to the law. It no longer has power over us to keep us in bondage to sin. That's one thing. There are at least three other things that not being under the law anymore means. But, certainly, it's the same for Jew and gentile alike.

To this very day, when a Jew gets saved they want to obey the law. And why shouldn't they? I mean, not for justification, but for the framework through which they worship God. What do you expect them to do, adopt this Roman Catholic thing we have that they have no history or tradition with?

Acts 21 is a perfect example of how trying to placate others by compromising your practices and beliefs is a formula for disaster. Just stick to your guns and let God sort it out within each of us. James was wrong and Paul was wrong for caving into him.

I honestly do not know of a single member of a legitimate church who doesn't know this (save perhaps one person). The church sure likes to harp on an issue that's actually a non-issue in the church.

The issue is what does saving faith look like, and does it have to look like that for it to be considered genuine faith and for you to remain saved in Christ.

The point is, regardless of how it was in practice, the Jews are not under the law either. They are dead to the law, too, when they come to faith in Christ.

Actually the real issue is not what does it look like but what is saving faith!


Saving faith is in the person Christ Jesus for ETERNAL LIFE ....defined as a irrevocable gift and sealed by Holy Spirit, received in a moment in time.

Looks like You have Trouble Understanding this portion of Scripture:

Romans 9:6-8 (HCSB)
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants. On the contrary, your offspring will be traced through Isaac.
8 That is, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but the children of the promise are considered to be the offspring.


ONLY JEWS who have the FAITH OF ABRAHAM are Saved:

ABRAHAM - BELIEVED in his Heart (human spirit), that GOD would PROVIDE a MESSIAH to pay for his SINS.

Just like today, WE BELIEVE in our Heart (human spirit), that GOD did PROVIDE the MESSIAH to pay for our SINS.

YOU are Saved BY GRACE, through Faith that is not of yourselves, IT IS A GIFT OF GOD!


Isaiah 1:11-16 (NCV)
11 The LORD says, “I do not want all these sacrifices. I have had enough of your burnt sacrifices of male sheep and fat from fine animals. I am not pleased by the blood of bulls, lambs, and goats.
12 You come to meet with me, but who asked you to do all this running in and out of my Temple’s rooms?
13 Don’t continue bringing me worthless sacrifices! I hate the incense you burn. I can’t stand your New Moons, Sabbaths, and other feast days; I can’t stand the evil you do in your holy meetings.
14 I hate your New Moon feasts and your other yearly feasts. They have become a heavy weight on me, and I am tired of carrying it.
15 When you raise your arms to me in prayer, I will refuse to look at you. Even if you say many prayers, I will not listen to you, because your hands are full of blood.
16 Wash yourselves and make yourselves clean. Stop doing the evil things I see you do. Stop doing wrong.


THEY TURNED IT INTO A RITUALISTIC DO'S AND DO NOT'S THAT THEY OUT OF THEIR OWN STRENGTH, COULD SEEMINGLY MAKE THEMSELVES SEEM TO BE RIGHT WITH GOD; INSTEAD OF BECOMING TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON MESSIAH, TO PROVIDE THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS. THAT IS THE SAME THING THAT WORKS RIGHTEOUSNESS, SO CALLED BELIEVERS, ARE DOING WHEN THEY THINK THEIR WORKS EARN PART OF THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTIFICATION. THE SHEDDING OF ANIMAL BLOOD WAS TO POINT TO CHRIST'S SHED BLOOD ON THE CROSS, AS TOTALLY SUFFICIENT TO PAY FOR ALL THEIR SINS. THEREFORE, OBEDIENCE IS PART OF AGAPE LOVE, AND NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF SALVATION. JESUS PAID IT ALL!

I speak from the standpoint of knowing personally the fear, insecurity, and doubt that can come with lack of assurance of salvation and not knowing if God will keep you saved.

This lack of assurance for me was like fuel to the fire for the panic attacks, depression, and religious compulsions. I asked God to save me so many times I cannot count. Sometimes I may have felt better then the doubt would inevitably return. At least one time( maybe more) I had felt like I was doomed to hell.

I am in a better place now than I was before. Some of this due to reading Scriptures on trusting God, salvation,eternal security, and on God's love. Also through the preaching from my pastor and even songs. Songs like God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen( He has Come for Us) and Come to the Altar. I am still learning of God's grace and love.

One take away I want to give is that it is not about the strength of your faith, how good you are, or how bad you are not, and it is not about you at all. It is about the strength of the Saviour, his love, faithfulness and integrity to his word to keep his own people. He wanted the Israelites in the wilderness to trust in his salvation and provide for their physical needs. He wants his own children bought with the blood of Jesus to trust in his salvation of their souls.

Amen and Amen!

@Judges1318 denies the truth that Jesus proclaimed ..... " If the Son therefore shall make you free you shall be free indeed"

That's dishonest.

Yes I stated the same thing.. then they wonder why we get annoyed.

Perfectly put!

Has anyone gone through the entire thread of 6316 pages?