Born Again

3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

By the way..the view that you cause yourself to be born again is called "decisional regeneration".

And, it IS the most popular teaching in evangelicalism today because about 80 percent of Christians are free-willers of varying degrees.

Reformed theology teaches that God takes away the heart of stone, giving them a heart of flesh that wants to please and obey God. A fruit of this heart of flesh is faith and repentance. The giving of this heart of flesh is, in essence, regeneration or being born-again.

Free-willer theology teaches that man must produce faith and repentance from his stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh.

Unfortunately free-willer theology has dominated the American scene due to the Wesley brothers and Charles Finney. Most people just assume it.

Why is this dangerous? It is dangerous because believers are strutting around in prideful boasting about their contribution rather than giving the LORD all the glory for their salvation. They cannot say Soli Deo Gloria because their contribution was really the deciding factor.

Whosoever will may come.

As I had previously stated, many false teachers will come in and deny this truth. We have just observed a fine example of this in the preceding pages. It has been a not-so-subtle attack originating from Satan Himself. The Truth is easy. Falsehood is convoluted and hard to be understood. Nonsense does not make good sense to the true seekers of truth. Truth is to the those who are humble and pliable. They are those to whom Jesus will reveal Himself. We must choose to humble ourselves.

Luke 10
10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].
10:23 And he turned him unto [his] disciples, and said privately, Blessed [are] the eyes which see the things that ye see:
10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

I will begin the discussion with a question...Why do you think Nicodemus came at night?

I don't mean to be contrary and I agree that baptism in itself does not save but it DOES seem like water baptism is a pretty big deal in the New Testament.

I don't think we can discount the possibility of being born of water DOES refer to water baptism.

But I DO agree with you just because the bible states water it is not necessarily referring to baptism.


I think if we look at water baptism the way John was using it, as a source of repentance, or trying to be right before God, instead of some magic ritual that will impart Righteousness to someone it would be easier to accept and understand.

The way I have looked at water baptism is a public declaration for Christ. Sort of like saying I am making a proclamation for Christ. I believe and I want everyone (my peers?) to know that. I state this publicly in hopes of the Lord Jesus stating it privately before the Father.

Hey brother, I love your posts but I'd like to share why I believe "born of water" is = to "born of flesh"....


3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(Jesus is using physical birth as an earthly example to help the spiritually blind nicodemus see His point)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(again further explaining the two births.... born of flesh/born of water = natural birth Spirit = born of God)


7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......

You should be careful sir. To claim someone’s teachings are from satan is not something to do flippantly.
Consider this, if a man is born again, that is to say God dwells in this man and you claim this man’s teachings are of satan, what have you done? Kind of reminds me of Matthew 12. Something to consider.
Also, in my opinion it’s just bad form, less the topic is undeniable heresy.

I think if Jesus wanted the word water to be associated with baptism, he would have spelled it out when he told nicodemus how to be born again.

John 3: jesus response
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

surely if Jesus meant baptism he would have mentioned it at least once in his explanation of how one is born again

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


You are probably right. I'm just not 100% sure.

It DOES make the most sense in the way the Lord worded His response to Nicodemus that 'born of water' would just refer to being born in the flesh.

I just don't see it as the ONLY possibility.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It's more than that..man is born spiritually dead as Ephesians 2, Romans 5 teaches.

Until man is united by faith to Jesus Christ, they are spiritually dead and can produce no good works.

They have hearts of stone, and need a heart of flesh to respond to God.

And, despite what dispensationalists say, this is true for all, not just ancient Israel.

Jesus had these verses in mind:


Ezekiel 36:25-28
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
(ESV)

Notice that water and spirit are both mentioned in the John 3 account as well.

Again, we get into the false teachings of free-willers. They will clasp their hands over their eyes and REFUSE to see the correlation of these Scriptures to John 3. Why? Because if they accepted it, it would be contradictory to their belief system. And, dispensationalists can be just as bad, because they don't believe such references are speaking to the Church, but only to Israel.
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Free-willers teach that a man, with his heart of stone, must respond in faith and repentance, so that God can give him a heart of flesh.

Wrong.

The reality is that God gives the man a heart of flesh, which causes him to respond in faith and repentance.

John 3 and the Nicodemus account is ALL ABOUT this.

By the way, the explanation that the water is the mother's amniotic fluid is defective. God relates it to the regenerative, cleansing power of the Holy Spirit here.

So, I ask any honest person to carefully compare these verses to what Jesus says, and relate them...there's too many points of correlation to dismiss them.

But, that's exactly what free-willers will do. They cannot see that God himself is the Actor here, and not the person themselves. It is God who changes the sinner, the sinner doesn't change himself. The sinner does respond in faith and repentance, yes, but it is because God has given him a new heart.

These sorts of teachings are why I totally reject free-willer theology.

By the way, I do not deny that the man has limited free will. But his free will is under bondage to sin and Satan until God acts. Read Romans 6, John 8 in this regard. Because he is a sinner by nature, he will reject God and embrace sin until God acts to change his nature, which is regeneration. God takes the person from spiritual death to spiritual life so he can be freed to respond.

See Ephesians 2:1-10.

But, if you're a free-willer, clasp your hands over your eyes as hard as you can or your worldview might fall apart.

By the way..the view that you cause yourself to be born again is called "decisional regeneration".

And, it IS the most popular teaching in evangelicalism today because about 80 percent of Christians are free-willers of varying degrees.

Reformed theology teaches that God takes away the heart of stone, giving them a heart of flesh that wants to please and obey God. A fruit of this heart of flesh is faith and repentance. The giving of this heart of flesh is, in essence, regeneration or being born-again.

Free-willer theology teaches that man must produce faith and repentance from his stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh.

Unfortunately free-willer theology has dominated the American scene due to the Wesley brothers and Charles Finney. Most people just assume it.

Why is this dangerous? It is dangerous because believers are strutting around in prideful boasting about their contribution rather than giving the LORD all the glory for their salvation. They cannot say Soli Deo Gloria because their contribution was really the deciding factor.

Why is this dangerous? It is dangerous because believers are strutting around in prideful boasting about their contribution rather than giving the LORD all the glory for their salvation. They cannot say Soli Deo Gloria because their contribution was really the deciding factor.

I'm saying God changes the nature of the person through regeneration (being born again), and this produces the fruit of faith and repentance.

God removes the stony heart, giving them a heart of flesh (the new nature) and this heart produces the fruit of faith and repentance.

The other view is decisional regeneration..that you need to produce faith and repentance from a stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh.

That is the dominant view that has been taught by evangelicals since the church was overwhelmed by free-willers. And, this is a result of Charles Finney and others like him, that focus on decisional regeneration.

Do I believe their is a "choice"? Yes..and the man with a heart of stone always chooses to reject God and embrace a life of sin. The man with the heart of flesh, given to him by God, always chooses to embrace God and reject his life of sin.

It is God who gives the heart of flesh to those he is saving.

I’m not sure I agree with you completely sir, there are too many verses that explain predestination. However, there are also many, as you said that show the desire of God that all be saved, and propitiation was made for all who believe... It’s a head scratcher for me at this point, one perhaps we’ll not completely understand until glorified.
One thing I do know, less we be born again of water and spirit, we will not enter. What does this mean? Ezekiel 36 God explains He will sprinkle clean water, He will give a new heart and He will place a new Spirit within and cause you to walk in His statutes... A beautiful image of the new birth.
in John 14 Jesus answers Judas (not Iscariot) If a man loves Jesus he will keep His words: and my Father will love him, the Father and Jesus will come and make abode within that man.
Many other verses of course but the amazing fact of the new birth is the Holy Trinity embodies the saved, this is new birth. What must we do to be saved? Acts2 repent, be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit.
The Father, the Son and the Spirit are one. He comes on his own accord for His own glory to those He chooses and that person becomes one with God. Amazing.
I was a professing believer for over 20 years before I was born again, before I truly became Christian. You’ll know it when the God of creation abides in you, it’s unmistakable.
If you’re reading this and you’re not sure if new birth has occurred I just encourage you to ask, ask with all your heart. Our God is not a God of confusion, if you are saved and seek assurance and confidence He will answer. 1 John is an amazing book for assurance and test.

Forgive my verse paraphrasing

I was a professing believer for over 20 years before I was born again, before I truly became Christian. You’ll know it when the God of creation abides in you, it’s unmistakable.

Please don’t turn this into an election debate, the title is New Birth let’s stick to that please. New birth is an amazing gift, we should rejoice.

You should be careful sir. To claim someone’s teachings are from satan is not something to do flippantly.
Consider this, if a man is born again, that is to say God dwells in this man and you claim this man’s teachings are of satan, what have you done? Kind of reminds me of Matthew 12. Something to consider.
Also, in my opinion it’s just bad form, less the topic is undeniable heresy.

uh huh

and the actually stupid belief that people must be regenerated before accepting Christ is beyond comprehension

the Bible states we accept Christ by HEARING and then we receive the Holy Spirit and are then regenerated by God's Spirit

no one has the Holy Spirit who is not first of Christ their Savior

Calvinists and certain others have salvation utterly backwards and yet call the rest of us ignorant

it is also pathetic to have to piggyback on someone elses' op because no one is bothering with the Calvinist threads anymore

I promised some of the newcomers we would start a thread about being 'Born Again'. This is it