Born Again

oyster67 · Jan 28, 2020

Whosoever will may come.

As I had previously stated, many false teachers will come in and deny this truth. We have just observed a fine example of this in the preceding pages. It has been a not-so-subtle attack originating from Satan Himself. The Truth is easy. Falsehood is convoluted and hard to be understood. Nonsense does not make good sense to the true seekers of truth. Truth is to the those who are humble and pliable. They are those to whom Jesus will reveal Himself. We must choose to humble ourselves.

Luke 10
10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].
10:23 And he turned him unto [his] disciples, and said privately, Blessed [are] the eyes which see the things that ye see:
10:24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard [them].

NOV25 · Jan 28, 2020

UnitedWithChrist said:

Is it coincidence that some estimate 80% of the “church” in America to be false converts? I think not. Actually I believe it’s well over 80% but that’s my opinion.
Ever done some quick math on Christian statistics? 73% of Americans claim to be Christian. There are over 300million Americans, that means there are over 230million professing Christians in this country. If only 20% of them are true, are born again, then that gives us almost 50million Christians total. I am in Florida at the moment, which has 67 counties, this means there should be approximately 10,000 spirit filled, born again Christians in this county. I just don’t see it. A mere 100 spirit filled Christians would set this place on fire. We’re sadly outnumbered, and I don’t mean in the world, I mean in the local church.
The American local church is one of the toughest mission fields in the world. Why? Because they believe themselves born again, they believe themselves Christian and sadly they are not.
Simply put, to be Christian is to be born again. To be born again is to be the embodiment of the Trinity. How do we test this? Fruit.

NOV25 · Jan 28, 2020

oyster67 said:

You should be careful sir. To claim someone’s teachings are from satan is not something to do flippantly.
Consider this, if a man is born again, that is to say God dwells in this man and you claim this man’s teachings are of satan, what have you done? Kind of reminds me of Matthew 12. Something to consider.
Also, in my opinion it’s just bad form, less the topic is undeniable heresy.

UnoiAmarah · Jan 29, 2020

oyster67 said:

I think Nicodemus came at night because it is written that "there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, the same came to Jesus by night..."

However, the reason why Nicodemus came to Jesus was to steal. When Nicodemus said to Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who comes from God" then it should be obvious what they intended to steal since Jesus was a teacher who was sent by the LORD.

Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. John 7:28

eternally-gratefull · Jan 29, 2020

Grandpa said:

I think if Jesus wanted the word water to be associated with baptism, he would have spelled it out when he told nicodemus how to be born again.

John 3: jesus response
10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [b]who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,15 that whoever believes in Him should [c]not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

surely if Jesus meant baptism he would have mentioned it at least once in his explanation of how one is born again

Grandpa · Jan 29, 2020

OneOfHis said:

Hey brother, I love your posts but I'd like to share why I believe "born of water" is = to "born of flesh"....

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(Jesus is using physical birth as an earthly example to help the spiritually blind nicodemus see His point)

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

(again Nicodemus is unable to understand this spiritual lesson even with an earthly example of birth so he uses his earthly reasoning to question Jesus about being born of flesh two times)

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(still speaking of brith and trying to relate the two.... born of water = anatomical fluid =born of flesh and born of the Spirit = when God makes His children new)

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

(again further explaining the two births.... born of flesh/born of water = natural birth Spirit = born of God)

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again......

Yes. I definitely see born of flesh being a possibility for "born of water" as well.

Just not sure if that is the ONLY possibility of the Lords words here.

It DOES fit the best, I think.

oyster67 · Jan 29, 2020

NOV25 said:

Any man who is afraid to speak out against apostasy, damnable heresies, and false teaching is not worth his salt.

Thank you for expressing your negative opinion about my form.

Jude 1
1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 16
16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Grandpa · Jan 29, 2020

eternally-gratefull said:

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

You are probably right. I'm just not 100% sure.

It DOES make the most sense in the way the Lord worded His response to Nicodemus that 'born of water' would just refer to being born in the flesh.

I just don't see it as the ONLY possibility.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 29, 2020

Grandpa said:

Ephesians 5:25-27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

You are probably right. I'm just not 100% sure.

It DOES make the most sense in the way the Lord worded His response to Nicodemus that 'born of water' would just refer to being born in the flesh.

I just don't see it as the ONLY possibility.

I don't either

I just do not see water baptism as any hint of a possibility

oyster67 · Jan 29, 2020

oyster67 said:

The best news of all... what God did, He did for love. He did this for all, because He loves us all. He loved us before we loved Him. The "Everlasting Life" mentioned here carries with it the connotation of a good and joyous life with Him.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

UnitedWithChrist said:

It's more than that..man is born spiritually dead as Ephesians 2, Romans 5 teaches.

Until man is united by faith to Jesus Christ, they are spiritually dead and can produce no good works.

They have hearts of stone, and need a heart of flesh to respond to God.

And, despite what dispensationalists say, this is true for all, not just ancient Israel.

Jesus had these verses in mind:

Ezekiel 36:25-28
25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. 28 You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
(ESV)

Notice that water and spirit are both mentioned in the John 3 account as well.

Again, we get into the false teachings of free-willers. They will clasp their hands over their eyes and REFUSE to see the correlation of these Scriptures to John 3. Why? Because if they accepted it, it would be contradictory to their belief system. And, dispensationalists can be just as bad, because they don't believe such references are speaking to the Church, but only to Israel.
'
Free-willers teach that a man, with his heart of stone, must respond in faith and repentance, so that God can give him a heart of flesh.

Wrong.

The reality is that God gives the man a heart of flesh, which causes him to respond in faith and repentance.

John 3 and the Nicodemus account is ALL ABOUT this.

By the way, the explanation that the water is the mother's amniotic fluid is defective. God relates it to the regenerative, cleansing power of the Holy Spirit here.

So, I ask any honest person to carefully compare these verses to what Jesus says, and relate them...there's too many points of correlation to dismiss them.

But, that's exactly what free-willers will do. They cannot see that God himself is the Actor here, and not the person themselves. It is God who changes the sinner, the sinner doesn't change himself. The sinner does respond in faith and repentance, yes, but it is because God has given him a new heart.

These sorts of teachings are why I totally reject free-willer theology.

By the way, I do not deny that the man has limited free will. But his free will is under bondage to sin and Satan until God acts. Read Romans 6, John 8 in this regard. Because he is a sinner by nature, he will reject God and embrace sin until God acts to change his nature, which is regeneration. God takes the person from spiritual death to spiritual life so he can be freed to respond.

See Ephesians 2:1-10.

But, if you're a free-willer, clasp your hands over your eyes as hard as you can or your worldview might fall apart.

really?

you bring your nonsensical Calvinist teachings even here?

like I have said a good # of times now

you folks follow Calvin

this op is obviously following Christ AND the scriptures

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

UnitedWithChrist said:

you distort what we say, which is the only way you can continue with your nonsense

it is childish the way you have to constantly defend your personal Calvinistic rhetoric

I have learned there are almost as many flavors of Calvinism as there are in any other breakaway sect. Calvinism. the way you preach it, is actually a sect as your way off in left leaning hyper teachings of even some of what Calvin taught

no one is strutting around who actually does follow Christ. you are the only one bragging here which is typical of hyper Calvinists.
we all can read here, obviously, and are becoming more aware all the time of how certain Calvinists MUST mock and degrade those who do not fall at Calvins feet in awe

we fall at Jesus feet which is something you could learn from if you were not so proud of your supposed superior understanding

and I have no illusions that you will answer, which is probably good since you mock others so much, since according to further
of your illusions, women should just basically shut the hee haw up

but who knows

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

UnitedWithChrist said:

uh huh

and the actually stupid belief that people must be regenerated before accepting Christ is beyond comprehension

the Bible states we accept Christ by HEARING and then we receive the Holy Spirit and are then regenerated by God's Spirit

no one has the Holy Spirit who is not first of Christ their Savior

Calvinists and certain others have salvation utterly backwards and yet call the rest of us ignorant

it is also pathetic to have to piggyback on someone elses' op because no one is bothering with the Calvinist threads anymore

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

NOV25 said:

I’m not sure I agree with you completely sir, there are too many verses that explain predestination. However, there are also many, as you said that show the desire of God that all be saved, and propitiation was made for all who believe... It’s a head scratcher for me at this point, one perhaps we’ll not completely understand until glorified.
One thing I do know, less we be born again of water and spirit, we will not enter. What does this mean? Ezekiel 36 God explains He will sprinkle clean water, He will give a new heart and He will place a new Spirit within and cause you to walk in His statutes... A beautiful image of the new birth.
in John 14 Jesus answers Judas (not Iscariot) If a man loves Jesus he will keep His words: and my Father will love him, the Father and Jesus will come and make abode within that man.
Many other verses of course but the amazing fact of the new birth is the Holy Trinity embodies the saved, this is new birth. What must we do to be saved? Acts2 repent, be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit.
The Father, the Son and the Spirit are one. He comes on his own accord for His own glory to those He chooses and that person becomes one with God. Amazing.
I was a professing believer for over 20 years before I was born again, before I truly became Christian. You’ll know it when the God of creation abides in you, it’s unmistakable.
If you’re reading this and you’re not sure if new birth has occurred I just encourage you to ask, ask with all your heart. Our God is not a God of confusion, if you are saved and seek assurance and confidence He will answer. 1 John is an amazing book for assurance and test.

Forgive my verse paraphrasing

well that's your experience

I certainly have a very different experience with my Savior

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

NOV25 said:

well look at what you said yourself

it seems Calvinists CANNOT speak of new life in Christ without exalting their personal savior....not Christ

7seasrekeyed · Jan 29, 2020

NOV25 said:

and what do you think the hyper Calvinists here say?

no offence, but you are new here

you have no idea of how nasty they have been here and what they have said

we don't bother anymore which is why they have shown up in this thread flying the flag of Calvin like a pirate flag on the ocean of humanity

John146 · Jan 29, 2020

7seasrekeyed said:

uh huh

and the actually stupid belief that people must be regenerated before accepting Christ is beyond comprehension

the Bible states we accept Christ by HEARING and then we receive the Holy Spirit and are then regenerated by God's Spirit

no one has the Holy Spirit who is not first of Christ their Savior

Calvinists and certain others have salvation utterly backwards and yet call the rest of us ignorant

it is also pathetic to have to piggyback on someone elses' op because no one is bothering with the Calvinist threads anymore

They have built their belief system off one verse out of context. Very dangerous.

Wall · Jan 29, 2020

oyster67 said:

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, EXCEPT A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! [14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

John3 and Job14 are speaking of the same event. Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again? After the heavens be no more, says Job. Then will his "change" come. The changing found in 1Cor.15 {in the twinkling of an eye}

2PET.3 [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD WILL COME as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up

Job says his "change" will come when the heavens be no more. Above scripture tells us the heavens be no more at the coming of the Day of the Lord. When Jesus returns

1COR.15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

I know this will upset the rapturist but "we shall all be changed" at the coming of the Day of the Lord as the heavens pass away {If you believe Job}. At this time we are born again (corruptible puts on incorruption) and will be gathered {meet the Lord in the air} and then its off to the kingdom rest

Because 1Cor.15 and 1Thes.4 are speaking of the same event you can also prove the timing of this event in 1Thes.4 .

Wall · Jan 29, 2020

I know what the “many” claim about being born again. Is what they claim scriptural? According to scripture being "born again" happens when we are all changed in the twinkling of an eye. Thats when our corruptible puts on the incorruptible. This only makes sense because we are givin new bodies before entering the kingdom

PHIL.3 [20] For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:[21] WHO SHALL CHANGE OUR VILE BODY, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

1PETER1
[4] To AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto SALVATION READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, EVEN THE SALVATION OF YOUR SOULS.[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and HOPE TO THE END FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY. ........
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Phil.3{21}
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Alls ya really gotta do is read 1Peter1{23} and 1Cor.15{53} and youll understand what it means to be “born again”

oyster67 · Jan 29, 2020

Being born again is about receiving salvation now. Read the context.

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