Doubting disease

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#1
Well my scruples has been acting up. Sometimes I'm fine with the entertainment I partake in. But sometimes the what if kicks in. What if this is a sin and these legalistic ultra fundamentalist are correct about everything. If that's the case I literally have no hobbies and all I can do is read the bible (which fills me with anxiety and doubt as well) I will doubt everything if I think about it long enough. My ocd and anxiety makes sure a problem is always in my mind. I f doubting something makes it a sin as Paul says the very air I breath is sinful as theres is never no doubt
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,581
17,050
113
69
Tennessee
#2
God wants us to have life and have it more abundantly. Go ahead and enjoy your entertainment with a clear conscience.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#3
God wants us to have life and have it more abundantly. Go ahead and enjoy your entertainment with a clear conscience.
Yes....had a bit of a meltdown today....Im having less and less panic attacks as of late so its improving (y)
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
#4
Well my scruples has been acting up. Sometimes I'm fine with the entertainment I partake in. But sometimes the what if kicks in. What if this is a sin and these legalistic ultra fundamentalist are correct about everything. If that's the case I literally have no hobbies and all I can do is read the bible (which fills me with anxiety and doubt as well) I will doubt everything if I think about it long enough. My ocd and anxiety makes sure a problem is always in my mind. I f doubting something makes it a sin as Paul says the very air I breath is sinful as theres is never no doubt
Here is a video that may be of help.


Also don't let the OCD tell you what you can and cannot watch, read or do. When you give into what OCD wants you to do, it feeds the obsessions even more. Wishing you well. You got this! 💪
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
4,058
3,172
113
#5
I've never thought of doubting as a sin.
 

love_comes_softly

Well-known member
Feb 13, 2019
768
823
93
#6
Your title is very intriguing. I have never thought about doubting as a disease, but goodness, you are so right. It can be all consuming and in a sense lead to death.

I'm happy to read that the panic attacks are less. I pray that this continues and that the Lord take this doubt from you.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
1,330
113
#7
I feel that and I simply default to reading the word, thinking, and basic self maintenance. Mostly because I don't really want to do those things. I did at one time in my life, but the guilt was always there in some form. I've felt it since I was a child honestly.

Even when one is in that state (I find) that there are many things to do that could not possibly be considered sin in and of themselves. I believe I posted about this to you before. Do you recall this thread and my response? Below is much of the same except since I live this, it's months later.

Take it for what it's worth to you but I've personally experienced conviction about a lot of the things you have talked about before. They all have the same vibe more or less of porn. I have spent a lot of time convincing myself that with my liberty as a believer it's not sinful. Is it beneficial though? Does it strengthen my walk with the Lord? No.

Certainly the enemy can accuse you in conjunction with a conviction you continue to ignore and that produces a confused state of anxiety and depression...I experience it only when I ignore the Lord. What follows will be my own personal experience. It is contrary to what most believers I've met think/say. So you can scroll past it or not. Do I think there is a version of all the vain creations of man that honor and glorify the Lord? I certainly hope so. My longing toward certain things has subsided with continued resistance. Things that are most clearly not part of a believers life. Although I will admit, I'm not sure if the way is "so" narrow, but when I broaden it a bit it usually is just about me and what "I" want and not dying to myself, picking up my cross and following the Lord.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I usually have a fire but have lately been observing not having one on the sabbath just because...it's not any particular legalism but a fire is my own pleasure and so I just try for a day to not seek out my own pleasures as much. I still seek the Lord within pleasure ordinarily and recognize that there are many neutral things that I can do instead that I usually feel it to be time well spent.

Examples: Going for a walk, listening to radio broadcasts (depending), exercise, cooking, spending a bit of time just sitting in my car. Almost anything regarding animals or gardening. Swimming, biking, playing with children, etc.


There are times I really want to watch something or engage in what is basically unproductive fantasy and while sometimes I throw a tantrum about my personal convictions and what I feel the Lord has laid on my heart, these occur less and less frequently.

There are times where I just give in to that and recently it was concerning a game and the result was just a mild bleh for a few months. Where I didn't want to read or pray really except as an afterthought, and now the game is dull and uninteresting.


Fake stuff doesn't really help me in my walk. Nor does it really help me with goals in life which is seeing the Lord's promises fulfilled. They may sound a bit "heavy" but I don't particularly care what fundamental legalists (of which I have met few) have to say about things unless their goal is focused on what is in scripture. I hope "fundamental legalist" isn't a derogatory term for a sold out christian....because there are times where all I want to do is leave my flesh behind, and a lot of gaming, internet, and films/tv only seem to make me more comfortable in it. I am less inclined to feel guilty about things that are unscriptural as a general effect as well as open myself up to more specific attacks if I "dabble" with certain behaviors. Idolatry is a thing and so is occultic expression. Is it all that? Not generally speaking. It depends on the person. I find myself attracted to things most believers are largely unaware of and can't even conceptualize the draw. So while it is a private battle that I keep to myself mostly, I do speak out occasionally against the things they are so comfortable in because of how it does not edify me and weakens.

On a somewhat deeper level, you wait on the Lord regarding sexuality and you wait on the Lord regarding spirituality (marriage of the lamb). There are a lot of things you can "have now" but they are hollow. Sometimes I rage a bit in my impatience and am flippant about the futility of it all...but HE is patient and comforts me at times regardless. I feel as though everything will be called into account some day (scripture) and that even the tiny bits of "OCD" with a desire to serve him and conform to his will and his image even if the result was only so-so, he sees.

I feel when a believer walks out of a theater because something bothers them because "it's the right thing to do" is to be applauded. It's a little thing, and "something" will make you feel like it doesn't matter as it was just one little thing. Whatever that "something" is, I typically choose to not listen to it.


Rarely (if ever) do I get a break from this constant battle unless I submit to the Lord, as opposed to my own will. I can say that at times, it looks like a hopeless uphill battle even when I do submit...but I'm not alone, and walking in the Lord's power and strength requires further submitting.

It's not all bad though. I read recently in corinthians somewhere that if one does not take part in sufferings (or persecutions) of Christ neither can they enter into his rest. I read that after the fact, when it seems like there's a nice peaceful meadow moment. These moments are well worth it, but hard to describe.




I typed a bit more out, but this stuff is challenging for me to write about because of my own struggles but I can be more expansive if it would be useful to you. This isn't something the majority of believers experience to a serious degree and it is quite harrowing.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#8
...all I can do is read the bible (which fills me with anxiety and doubt as well)
If reading the scriptures is causing you to have anxiety and doubt you may want to spend some time examining the road you are on. The Christian life, well lived, is at heart an ascetic life. “Your best life now” is an attempt to fit Jesus into a modern materialistic culture and mindset that is inconsistent with thousands of years of Christian history. So the “fundies” are closer to being correct than incorrect.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#9
If reading the scriptures is causing you to have anxiety and doubt you may want to spend some time examining the road you are on. The Christian life, well lived, is at heart an ascetic life. “Your best life now” is an attempt to fit Jesus into a modern materialistic culture and mindset that is inconsistent with thousands of years of Christian history. So the “fundies” are closer to being correct than incorrect.
Well thanks for presenting me with more to doubt and worry about...and I was starting to feel better too silly me....
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#10
Your title is very intriguing. I have never thought about doubting as a disease, but goodness, you are so right. It can be all consuming and in a sense lead to death.

I'm happy to read that the panic attacks are less. I pray that this continues and that the Lord take this doubt from you.
Scruplosity is often called a doubting disease.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#11
If reading the scriptures is causing you to have anxiety and doubt you may want to spend some time examining the road you are on. The Christian life, well lived, is at heart an ascetic life. “Your best life now” is an attempt to fit Jesus into a modern materialistic culture and mindset that is inconsistent with thousands of years of Christian history. So the “fundies” are closer to being correct than incorrect.
For one I dont believe in your "best life now" I'm in agreement that we are called to serve and sometimes suffer. Call me crazy but I dont think God wants me literally go insane and have debilitating panic attacks on a daily basis. So thanks I'm back on the anxiety horse
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#12
I feel that and I simply default to reading the word, thinking, and basic self maintenance. Mostly because I don't really want to do those things. I did at one time in my life, but the guilt was always there in some form. I've felt it since I was a child honestly.

Even when one is in that state (I find) that there are many things to do that could not possibly be considered sin in and of themselves. I believe I posted about this to you before. Do you recall this thread and my response? Below is much of the same except since I live this, it's months later.

Take it for what it's worth to you but I've personally experienced conviction about a lot of the things you have talked about before. They all have the same vibe more or less of porn. I have spent a lot of time convincing myself that with my liberty as a believer it's not sinful. Is it beneficial though? Does it strengthen my walk with the Lord? No.

Certainly the enemy can accuse you in conjunction with a conviction you continue to ignore and that produces a confused state of anxiety and depression...I experience it only when I ignore the Lord. What follows will be my own personal experience. It is contrary to what most believers I've met think/say. So you can scroll past it or not. Do I think there is a version of all the vain creations of man that honor and glorify the Lord? I certainly hope so. My longing toward certain things has subsided with continued resistance. Things that are most clearly not part of a believers life. Although I will admit, I'm not sure if the way is "so" narrow, but when I broaden it a bit it usually is just about me and what "I" want and not dying to myself, picking up my cross and following the Lord.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I usually have a fire but have lately been observing not having one on the sabbath just because...it's not any particular legalism but a fire is my own pleasure and so I just try for a day to not seek out my own pleasures as much. I still seek the Lord within pleasure ordinarily and recognize that there are many neutral things that I can do instead that I usually feel it to be time well spent.

Examples: Going for a walk, listening to radio broadcasts (depending), exercise, cooking, spending a bit of time just sitting in my car. Almost anything regarding animals or gardening. Swimming, biking, playing with children, etc.


There are times I really want to watch something or engage in what is basically unproductive fantasy and while sometimes I throw a tantrum about my personal convictions and what I feel the Lord has laid on my heart, these occur less and less frequently.

There are times where I just give in to that and recently it was concerning a game and the result was just a mild bleh for a few months. Where I didn't want to read or pray really except as an afterthought, and now the game is dull and uninteresting.


Fake stuff doesn't really help me in my walk. Nor does it really help me with goals in life which is seeing the Lord's promises fulfilled. They may sound a bit "heavy" but I don't particularly care what fundamental legalists (of which I have met few) have to say about things unless their goal is focused on what is in scripture. I hope "fundamental legalist" isn't a derogatory term for a sold out christian....because there are times where all I want to do is leave my flesh behind, and a lot of gaming, internet, and films/tv only seem to make me more comfortable in it. I am less inclined to feel guilty about things that are unscriptural as a general effect as well as open myself up to more specific attacks if I "dabble" with certain behaviors. Idolatry is a thing and so is occultic expression. Is it all that? Not generally speaking. It depends on the person. I find myself attracted to things most believers are largely unaware of and can't even conceptualize the draw. So while it is a private battle that I keep to myself mostly, I do speak out occasionally against the things they are so comfortable in because of how it does not edify me and weakens.

On a somewhat deeper level, you wait on the Lord regarding sexuality and you wait on the Lord regarding spirituality (marriage of the lamb). There are a lot of things you can "have now" but they are hollow. Sometimes I rage a bit in my impatience and am flippant about the futility of it all...but HE is patient and comforts me at times regardless. I feel as though everything will be called into account some day (scripture) and that even the tiny bits of "OCD" with a desire to serve him and conform to his will and his image even if the result was only so-so, he sees.

I feel when a believer walks out of a theater because something bothers them because "it's the right thing to do" is to be applauded. It's a little thing, and "something" will make you feel like it doesn't matter as it was just one little thing. Whatever that "something" is, I typically choose to not listen to it.


Rarely (if ever) do I get a break from this constant battle unless I submit to the Lord, as opposed to my own will. I can say that at times, it looks like a hopeless uphill battle even when I do submit...but I'm not alone, and walking in the Lord's power and strength requires further submitting.

It's not all bad though. I read recently in corinthians somewhere that if one does not take part in sufferings (or persecutions) of Christ neither can they enter into his rest. I read that after the fact, when it seems like there's a nice peaceful meadow moment. These moments are well worth it, but hard to describe.




I typed a bit more out, but this stuff is challenging for me to write about because of my own struggles but I can be more expansive if it would be useful to you. This isn't something the majority of believers experience to a serious degree and it is quite harrowing.
Thank you that really puts it in perspective. I think fasting will help me. If theres things I need get rid of I will. I'd like to join a bible study soon. I think it may help to read scripture with others
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
#13
@Kojikun, you are able to conquer the anxiety. Often one's own actions keep the anxiety disorder going. An example of this would be avoidance of feared situations. It may feel better in short term but is bad for long term in overcoming the fear. It is similar with rituals.

I am routing for you to overcome. In ERP you expose yourself to those things that are triggers for the doubt without doing the ritual. So, perhaps for you that could be watching a non-christian film. And to keep reading the bible even if you feel anxious about it . Now with the non-christian film it doesn't have to be something really bad with a whole bunch of cursing, or nudity or anything that may be offensive to you. The treatment of Scrupulosity is intended not to wound your conscience but to help you overcome and practice your faith with freedom.

Truthfully I have a therapist I go to for anxiety. I tend to want to avoid driving by myself. I need to work through not rereading and repeating myself to people in order to make sure I was heard and understood. Once I noticed with the driving that once I was in the car and going, it wasn't so bad. Probably often times but not always, the anxiety before doing something is worse than when actually doing it.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#14
@Kojikun, you are able to conquer the anxiety. Often one's own actions keep the anxiety disorder going. An example of this would be avoidance of feared situations. It may feel better in short term but is bad for long term in overcoming the fear. It is similar with rituals.

I am routing for you to overcome. In ERP you expose yourself to those things that are triggers for the doubt without doing the ritual. So, perhaps for you that could be watching a non-christian film. And to keep reading the bible even if you feel anxious about it . Now with the non-christian film it doesn't have to be something really bad with a whole bunch of cursing, or nudity or anything that may be offensive to you. The treatment of Scrupulosity is intended not to wound your conscience but to help you overcome and practice your faith with freedom.

Truthfully I have a therapist I go to for anxiety. I tend to want to avoid driving by myself. I need to work through not rereading and repeating myself to people in order to make sure I was heard and understood. Once I noticed with the driving that once I was in the car and going, it wasn't so bad. Probably often times but not always, the anxiety before doing something is worse than when actually doing it.
Yes I've heard of that tactic it can be done for the bible reading. I think reading in a group would be nice. Because I really want to enjoy the bible 😣
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,429
113
#15
Yes I've heard of that tactic it can be done for the bible reading. I think reading in a group would be nice. Because I really want to enjoy the bible 😣
You can read it with people and by yourself too. What troubles you with bible reading?
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
2,082
1,330
113
#16
Yes I've heard of that tactic it can be done for the bible reading. I think reading in a group would be nice. Because I really want to enjoy the bible 😣
Personally I find it's "almost" totally different with others. The side trails I go on that are "unproductive" and lead to "damning tangents" don't really ever occur with other people. When they do, since damnation is a thing, it seems much more productive. Even sharing about those things with people in a group setting is helpful sometimes...even though as a male with pride issues that is hard for me.

The challenge is finding a bible study. In the last year I just went to a random place that had church on a wednesday. I didn't want to go to a home group off shoot of a church that a lot of my family goes to...where it's mostly just one person talking with interjections. I wanted to find something more like a class with homework reading, etc. This type is hard to find...but the random place I went to was like the bible studies I remembered and it was odd because I was able to fit right in with strangers and it was pretty neat.


At the same time, I don't think "church hopping" is a long term solution. Some things are so heavy that each of us deal with that we need to establish a bit of a foundation before we share certain things, or at least that has been my experience with a lot of miscommunication due to lack of familiarity with a person.



Not sure, I think popcorn reading over the radio would be pretty cool. Would certainly be a unique experience to meet on a HAM frequency and see what comes of it. Or just in general to snazz things up a bit.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,581
17,050
113
69
Tennessee
#17
Yes....had a bit of a meltdown today....Im having less and less panic attacks as of late so its improving (y)
That's certainly a good report. Lately, I have made it a point to give all my worries, fear, and anxiety each day during my morning prayers. I believe that this has helped give my clarity of thought, peace in my mind and a certain measure of joy in my heart. Really, it's not so bad if you think about it.
 

KhedetOrthos

Active member
Dec 13, 2019
284
158
43
#18
Well thanks for presenting me with more to doubt and worry about...and I was starting to feel better too silly me....
I may have misinterpreted your original post. After reading it, I understood that you had begun to have concerns about the types of entertainment you consumed and that reading the Bible increased your concern about these choices. If you are suffering from some other generalized form of anxiety, forget everything I said.
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#19
I may have misinterpreted your original post. After reading it, I understood that you had begun to have concerns about the types of entertainment you consumed and that reading the Bible increased your concern about these choices. If you are suffering from some other generalized form of anxiety, forget everything I said.
My apologies brother I had rough night last night 😣 I know you where trying to help God bless brother ❤
 

Kojikun

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2018
4,658
2,721
113
#20
Personally I find it's "almost" totally different with others. The side trails I go on that are "unproductive" and lead to "damning tangents" don't really ever occur with other people. When they do, since damnation is a thing, it seems much more productive. Even sharing about those things with people in a group setting is helpful sometimes...even though as a male with pride issues that is hard for me.

The challenge is finding a bible study. In the last year I just went to a random place that had church on a wednesday. I didn't want to go to a home group off shoot of a church that a lot of my family goes to...where it's mostly just one person talking with interjections. I wanted to find something more like a class with homework reading, etc. This type is hard to find...but the random place I went to was like the bible studies I remembered and it was odd because I was able to fit right in with strangers and it was pretty neat.


At the same time, I don't think "church hopping" is a long term solution. Some things are so heavy that each of us deal with that we need to establish a bit of a foundation before we share certain things, or at least that has been my experience with a lot of miscommunication due to lack of familiarity with a person.



Not sure, I think popcorn reading over the radio would be pretty cool. Would certainly be a unique experience to meet on a HAM frequency and see what comes of it. Or just in general to snazz things up a bit.
The plus side is I did find a church I like 😁 I just need to see if they have a study class