Jonah Died and went to Hell

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garee

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The Greek word for "hell" in that verse isn't hades, it's geena (gheh' en-nah)i.e. the sum of all fears. So then, the rich man incarcerated in hades as perLuke 16:19-31 still has his soul and won't lose it till he's transferred togeena during the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15 were people will undergo a gruesome termination akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
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The parable in Luke does not give us information as to what a soul is or this person called the rich man had a living soul. . The context is natural man seeking another source of faith other than all things written in the law and the prophets .Represented my Moses( the law) and Elias.(prophet)

The rich man was seeking after workers with familiar spirits (disembodied spirits) as necromancy . The Holy Spirit informs us of that kind of ideology . let the dead bury the dead.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Luke 16:26

The Rich man inot having ears to hear ignored the word of God Like cain in the garden and the Rich man continued to walk after Paganism. ( out of sight out of mind)

There is only one manner that we can commune with the Spirit of Christ. called this manner in Mathew 6 . . .our father who is in heaven. Those who had no faith to hear God made it after earthly Abraham. Despite the warning to call no man on earth father.
 
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John146

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watcher2013 said:
If i take it literally even worst...
Dead body cannot pray...
Spirit goes back to God.

God do not need dead prophet...He can select another one...

So if the dead can pray..can we ask the dead to pray for us?

Mat 12:40 KJV For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

This is very clear....the only signs from Jonah is the 3 days and 3 nights...
Who said about resurection????
Whos the one spiritualizing?
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I'll prove from Scripture that the soul of a man can pray and can feel pain. Jonah's body was dead in the whale's belly. His soul was alive in hell. The rich man's soul was in hell, in torment. His soul could speak, see, taste, suffer pain.

Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

These souls are found under the altar crying out. These souls can wear robes.

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 
J

John146

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garee said:
The parable in Luke does not give us information as to what a soul is or this person called the rich man had a living soul. .
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Please! This is not a parable! Take it literally! Every man has a body, spirit, and soul. The body dies. The spirit returns to the Lord, the giver of life. The soul is what's at stake. It's either present with the Lord or present in hell.
 
G

garee

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Chris1975 said:
I was with you until that last few points, which I disagree with.

Nevertheless I was thinking about Hades/Sheol and Hell and how this could be likened to a system on earth. It is similar to Jail and Prison. When a crime is committed of a serious enough nature you are arrested and put in Prison (without bail) until such time that you are an assigned a court date. This is where you are to present your case and if found guilty, you would typically go from there to prison.

Now we know that the Lord's judgements are always true, so if you die outside of the faith, you go to Jail (Hades/Sheol) until the Day of Judgement, where the Goats who are found guilty are thrown into the Lake of Fire (Prison).

This is just an analogy I thought about. Not saying its scriptural. Just surmising.
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Amen. . .Sounds like the bosom of Abraham to represent the holy unseen place of the glory of our unseen father in heaven. Its were he kept the old testament saints as a holding cell or pen until Christ said it is finished .Opened the resurrection gates

As a living suffering. You could say according to gospel, or spiritual meaning in the parable "drink the blood" as it refers to Jesus'
 
JesusLives

JesusLives

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I would not want to say anyone went to hell. God is the only one who knows what we are due whether heaven or hell. I will wait and be surprised when it's all over as to who is where.
 
wolfwint

wolfwint

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#146
Chris1975 said:
I am posting this topic because of the chatroom question raised over Jonah in the belly of the fish, and all of the surrounding debate around this. I believe the bible can be taken literally in terms of what transpired. Lets analyse these verses:

Jonah 1
17 Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Jonah 2
2 Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said:
“I cried out to the Lord because of my affliction,
And He answered me.
“Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
3 For You cast me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the floods surrounded me;
All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight;
Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul;
The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,
O Lord, my God.
7 “When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the Lord;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 “Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own [b]Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed.
Salvation is of the Lord.”
10 So the Lord spoke to the fish, and it vomited Jonah onto dry land.

>We can take this account from Jonah LITERALLY. He was swallowed by a fish. He (his BODY) was in the fish 3 days. There is no suitable living environment within a fish (air pocket, condominium, economy class seating). Jonah died. He wasn't being preserved alive within the fish.
>Jonah gives the account - out of Sheol (Hell) he cried out. This is not to create a precedent that others can cry out from hell and be delivered in the same way. No. It just means that God is sovereign and can do as He pleases. He can bring low and He can lift up.
>Jonah's body was in the fish but his soul was in Sheol.
>Hell looks to be a place under the earth for this is where Jonah describes it.
>We also see with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man saying engaging with Father Abraham. Conversation/communication is possible within this spiritual nether realm.
>So it is not impossible for Jonah to call out to God from Sheol, and his prayer went up to the Holy Temple.

Now we have an interesting account coming from the Words of our Lord:

Matthew 12
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
>Jonah Died and Jesus Died.
>Jonah was alive after 3 days, Jesus was alive after 3 days.
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Jonah did not die and also was not in hell during the 3 days.
 
G

garee

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I'll prove from Scripture that the soul of a man can pray and can feel pain. Jonah's body was dead in the whale's belly. His soul was alive in hell. The rich man's soul was in hell, in torment. His soul could speak, see, taste, suffer pain.
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Jonas was not dead. He could of been breathing hard in anticipation for strength. How if being deader than a door nail could he cry out to God and receiving living strength? A written will before he died?


Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
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Luke 16 is a parable that involves necromancy.

These souls are found under the altar crying out. These souls can wear robes.
Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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Those are living souls on earth, The prayers of the wide awake saints the golden(faith) bowl , Robes the righteousness of Christ as a kingdom of priest. .

The other saints not reigning with Christ are dead asleep they will wake up on the last day. The seventh trumpet alarm clock. Sounds off as the voice of many waters . . . Wake up receive the promise of faith, the last day. And meet the saints that were on earth.
 
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watcher2013

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John146 said:
I'll prove from Scripture that the soul of a man can pray and can feel pain. Jonah's body was dead in the whale's belly. His soul was alive in hell. The rich man's soul was in hell, in torment. His soul could speak, see, taste, suffer pain.

Luke 16
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

These souls are found under the altar crying out. These souls can wear robes.

Revelation 6
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
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Really....
Ok..
Where was the rich man?...probably bad man..in hell...hot in there
Where was lazarus: abraham bosom...
Besides theres a big gap between two.

Where are the souls of saints...under the altar?

Now, where was jonah?
Loads of water....
 
G

garee

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wolfwint said:
Jonah did not die and also was not in hell during the 3 days.
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The Bible calls the "belly of the whale hell" a place of living suffering. .Its the same thing as saying the "heart of the corrupted earth".
 
Webers.Home

Webers.Home

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#150
.
Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the
story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal
flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life man; the father of the Hebrew
people, held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions:
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God. (Isa 41:8)

Abraham was also a prophet (Gen 20:7) which means he was an inspired man. As
such, he would be privy to information that would normally be unavailable to the
average rank and file pew warmer. However prophets aren't meant to keep what they
hear from God to themselves; they're messengers, e.g. Abraham was a teacher/mentor.
(Gen 18:19)

So then, I think it's fairly safe to assume the information that Abraham passed on to the
rich man came to Abraham via inspiration; which, if so, means that our reaction to his
remarks should be very different than the rich man's. He brushed aside what Abraham
told him; but we, I should hope, are wiser than that impious dunce because we know
that a prophet's teachings are the voice of God.

Anyway; I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man highly respected among
normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a
famous real-life man; most especially a prophet and one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is
fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't
really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false
witness.
_
 
Chris1975

Chris1975

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watcher2013 said:
Really....
Ok..
Where was the rich man?...probably bad man..in hell...hot in there
Where was lazarus: abraham bosom...
Besides theres a big gap between two.

Where are the souls of saints...under the altar?

Now, where was jonah?
Loads of water....
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Jonah's Body - in the fish
Jonah's Soul - separated from the body and in Sheol
Jonah after 3 days emerges (Soul and Body together) from the fish

Jesus Christ's Body - in the tomb
Jesus Christ's Soul - preaching to the spirits in prison in Sheol
Jesus Christ after 3 days emerges (Soul and Body together) from the tomb.
 
J

John146

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Locoponydirtman said:
Then Jonah prayed to the Lord his God from the stomach of the fish,
Jonah 2:1 NASB
, And said. ...
So Jonah used poetic hyperbole to describe his situation.
The literal part of this chapter is verse 1, the rest is Jonah from the fish saying stuff to God. And he was clearly given to hyperbole, he wanted to die because a worm ate his shade tree.
Understanding the English language and literary devices is kind of important. I saw this thread and thought I was about to read something interesting, but found more nonsense.
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There's no reason not to take this entire story literally. When you don't, you can make the Scripture say anything you want it to. That's dangerous.
 
J

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#154
garee said:
The Bible calls the "belly of the whale hell" a place of living suffering. .Its the same thing as saying the "heart of the corrupted earth".
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The Bible never uses the word hell to describe any earthly suffering. You minimize hell when you do that. Hell is a real place in the heart of the earth. Hell has literal fire and torment. Being in a whale's belly is no comparison whatsoever. If the only thing we read was the bible, we would never come up with these silly comparisons from these silly commentaries.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#155
John146 said:
There's no reason not to take this entire story literally. When you don't, you can make the Scripture say anything you want it to. That's dangerous.
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so he was in there forever and never got out except for the part where he did get out which means that he wasn't in there forever but he said forever which means that he was in there forever if you take that statement that he was saying literally

Or we can believe that God preserve to Jonah inside the belly of a fish that he had prepared for him and that this was a foreshadowing of the death burial and resurrection of Christ.
 
J

John146

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#156
Locoponydirtman said:
so he was in there forever and never got out except for the part where he did get out which means that he wasn't in there forever but he said forever which means that he was in there forever if you take that statement that he was saying literally
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Exactly! As far as he is concerned it is forever. But he remembered the Lord and prayed. God showed him mercy and brought him up from that corruption. Jonah is an exception to the rule. Salvation is of the Lord. This proves the rule. Christ can use Jonah as a type of what he was going to accomplish.
 
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watcher2013

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Chris1975 said:
Jonah's Body - in the fish
Jonah's Soul - separated from the body and in Sheol
Jonah after 3 days emerges (Soul and Body together) from the fish

Jesus Christ's Body - in the tomb
Jesus Christ's Soul - preaching to the spirits in prison in Sheol
Jesus Christ after 3 days emerges (Soul and Body together) from the tomb.
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So Jonah soul is in Sheol? Is this hell?
Is this not the same place the rich man was?

Your doctrine is a bit confused...
Did Jesus preach to the spirits in prison?
Did the bible speak this prison is in Sheol?
Who are in this prison?
1Pe 3:19-20 KJV 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Disobedient during noahs days...

2Pe 2:4-5 KJV 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#158
John146 said:
Exactly! As far as he is concerned it is forever. But he remembered the Lord and prayed. God showed him mercy and brought him up from that corruption. Jonah is an exception to the rule. Salvation is of the Lord. This proves the rule. Christ can use Jonah as a type of what he was going to accomplish.
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Either forever is literal or figurative.
If it's literal he never got out and is still there today. If he were speaking figuratively although it in his perspective seemed forever he got out.
It very likely he got out, scripture says so and subsequently preached to those folks in Nineveh.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#160
watcher2013 said:
Hell from the rich man...hot...no water
Hell from Jonah....loads of water...

You willing to accept this?....

If u mix them up your hell is like a fish stew
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He also thinks hell is at the bottom of the sea, and that mountains have roots, and that there are bars like a prison in hell, and that you can call to God after you have died and repent and be saved.
 
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