Does God Use Suffering to Conform the Believer to the Image of Christ?

I started a thread concerning the antics of Bethel Church in regards to "declaring" the resurrection of a girl named Olive. Olive died and Bethel Church was "declaring" a resurrection which never occurred.

One of the topics I mentioned related to suffering, and whether God uses suffering to conform the belever to the image of Jesus.

Word of Faith teachers and other charismatics/Pentecostals often say "no".

Their teaching is that a good God would never use suffering to achieve his purpose in salvation, which is to conform the believer to the image of Christ.

Amongst his other poor teachings, Bill Johnson denies that Christianity has a "theology of suffering" such as this. In fact, he says those who teach a "theology of suffering" have a false gospel.

I am astounded by such a claim. One can read Scripture and see that suffering is decreed for believers. In fact, the faith-examples of Hebrews 11 are individuals who continued on, despite difficult circumstances. They were people who looked past what their eyes could see physically, and looked to a heavenly city, not accepting deliverance in this world.

Faith is evidenced by obedience, regardless of how we feel, because we know God promises a good result. But, this good result often isn't realized in this world.

So, I am starting a poll in regards to this question regarding suffering, but I am also asking where, in Scripture, we find teachings on suffering, and how suffering benefits the believer.

I have already presented some examples.

Suffering brings out the heart-issues that are still remaining, even after the new birth. When all is going well, the assumption is that we are blessed by God due to our adequate obedience. Once scarcity and difficulties are experienced, though, our motivations are exposed if we are real believers. We look deeper within ourselves to see if our heart is really as clean as we think it is. Suffering also causes us to hope in the new creation, rather than in this present evil world, where death is still experienced. Suffering demonstrates the genuineness of our faith, and Satan is unable to claim that the believer only follows God due to his gifts. The real believer loves God and wants Him no matter what.

Some will claim that a good God would never use suffering. They may claim that Satan is at the controls when this type of suffering occurs. However, I would deny this claim, and assert that God is ultimately sovereign no matter what. Even if Satan causes the suffering, in a given case, God is in control and and therefore has passively decreed it.

One person remarked in my presence that if God causes suffering, he wants no part of him. According to him, God wants sunshine and lollipops continually for all of us. Has he ever thought that suffering and trials are actually gifts of God?

What does the first chapter of James say about this? Notice that James talks about suffering, and then says every good and perfect gift comes from God. What does the reader think that these gifts are? A well-informed Bible reader avoids proof-texting and looks at the verses preceding and following the verse. The reality is that the good and perfect gift is related to suffering through trials.

You won't hear guys like Bill Johnson teaching this, though. There is no proper "theology of suffering" and it's a false gospel to claim otherwise, in his book. All of life is sunshine and lollipops.

However, if someone has a solid theology of suffering, he can endure suffering knowing that God is in control, and God is using these events to shape him into the image of Christ. In fact, it is dangerous to have no theology of suffering, and I venture to say that if a person has a bad theology of suffering, it will ultimately lead to unmet expectations, and possibly spiritual bankruptcy or shipwreck.

Read Job, Hebrews, 1 Peter, and Romans 8:28-30. I hope others come up with Scriptural references, too. I could do it, but I am pretty lazy this afternoon.

This is a foible of humans...we want comfort instead of suffering. And that is part of why we form a Play-doh god who doesn't use suffering to conform us to the image of Christ. We don't even want to think about the lack of comfort we will experience throughout our lives.

Here's just a few examples. I am wondering what other examples you can come up with.

Note that I am not claim God never provides us with pleasant moments, either. God blesses us with good times as well as difficult times. However, in the process of conforming the believer to the image of Christ, he will experience bad times too.

"More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God's love is poured out through the Holy Spirit who was given to us." Romans 5:3-5

Judges already posted this verse, but I just want to share my testimony. I got Rheumatoid Arthritis in 1997, and was not diagnosed properly, because I was sero-negative. I was not put in the right medications, and the disease increased in severity, until I was bed bound. I finally got a diagnosis after 3 years but was still given only mild meds for 5 years, and I began to have more deformities.

I had 2 Word Faith friends telling me I had no faith, although I believed God for healing. But after a couple of years, I was in agonizing pain and I turned away from God for 2 years. (I should have turned away from my friends, although one died of cancer, because she refused treatment.)

God called me back. He finally got me reading the Psalms. I read 5 a day for 2 years. I saw real people who were sometimes hurting, sometimes rejoicing and following God. Very real, unlike the false doctrine of perfect people and perfect healing and no suffering. This comes when we are with Christ, and glorified. Not while we live in this fallen world, and we are being sanctified.

Then, I got on a good med combo, and God restored me. I went to seminary, learned how to serve God, and his people. In the last 4 years, I've had some med failures, but I kept holding onto God. And he sure held onto me!

Recently I was diagnosed with 2 kinds of heart disease. I gave it to God, and I have not experienced severe anxiety most people do, with heart disease. Oh, the Coronary Heart Disease was probably caused by the RA.

Before I got sick, I was over confident, paying lip service to God, but basically living my own life, although I was reading and studying my Bible and praying. God allowed me to experience pain and suffering, which made me totally dependent upon God. And humbled me! But mostly, it transformed me closer to the image of Christ.

"Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:1-2

"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:18

The word transformed in the above passages is in the imperative divine passive in Greek. That means God commands us to allow him to transform or change us.

In 2009 I had my foot reconstructed. It was excruciating, and it did not heal properly, plus I got shingles. God told me to read Job. Job became my best friend, esp. the fact that he never found out why God allowed him to go through so much suffering.

I think for most people, suffering is necessary. Anyone who thinks God does not allow suffering, has not been reading the whole Bible in context. Read 3 chapters of the OT and 1 of the NT to get through the Bible in a year. God is loving, but like a loving parent, shapes the way we grow as Christians and requires some hard measures for some of us. But what we go through in this life is merely training. Our future is with Christ, and we want to grow into his image.

Romans 8:29-30
"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

Do you still suffer from RA?

Yes I do! Strong meds help, though! RA is not a disease that goes away! A gene gets turned on in every cell in the body. Even the 2 chemo drugs I am on just suppress it, right now. Although research is being done on shutting the gene off.

I run a large RA group on FB where I am able to help a lot of people, and share the gospel. As long as I can use my disease to glorify God, I am content.

I researched RA for my neighbor. There is a Dr Joel Wallach, who is a Christian doctor and has studied and cured about every ailment. He says he recommends 'minocycline' to stop the infection and then a super vitamin plus intake to rebuild the affected areas. He does sell them, they are pricey, but superior in quality. He says he can CURE RA in two weeks by doing this.
He has done marvels with his patients. He has a website and his approach is to cure his patients not string them along for profit;s sake.
Just thought I'd pass this info along in case you want to check it out, God bless.

When you have children, or reach an age where you understand better the perspective of earthly fathers, you can revisit this topic again.

Simple.. Job.. God can't lie " Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil". Hard to see how God had to teach Job a perfect man anything. Seems Satan knew about that hedge about him. Yet everything that happen to Job was by Satan and was healed and got twice everything he had before. This was all BEFORE Christ.

Seems Christ gave us all power over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Seems were told to cast out demons lay hands on the sick and? Peter and John at the gate said.. you look at us as if we did this under our own power. Its faith in that NAME! But what always gets me about this is. Not one of them had to pray seek ask GOD or JESUS if it yours will...nothing. Seems they gave away what they hand in JESUS name. So what do they have that you don't And the word says.. sick SHALL BE..not maybe not could be. But shall be.

We know that the word of God tells us GOD always hears the righteous. He answers before we even finish. Now if we know He hears us then we know we have the petitions/prayers we asked for. We know we can ask the Father anything and He will do it. Ask Jesus.. what ever you desire when you pray believe you receive it you shall have it. Now Gods will HIS WORD! And His word will never go back to Him void. EVER. Now we read Jesus goes in to some town that Christ could only lay hands on a few and teach. Why? Doubt. We know in His word that if anyone doubts let not that man think he will get anything from God.

So how do we look at all this? Are we to look at others in this world and what ever happens to them.. to take that as fact as truth over Gods word? I know people that everyone that knew this man that the doc said had cancer. They knew he was going to be healed. He never spoke doubt. Everyone ALL would tell you that. He had that bible day and night. Well he died of cancer. In the car just the two of us he stops and brakes down and cries. Doubting he will ever be healed. Now God can not will not ever brake His word. He told us what happens when we doubt. What I heard saw no one else did. And I never told anyone that happen that day.

What do we expect GOD to do? He will never go against your will. He can never ever do anything bad or evil. You know ALL not some good or some bad. but ALL good things come from God. What is FAITH? Do we work our faith? How many times we do nothing and then GOD FORBID something bad happens we try to believe but.. by what we see hear and feel. All of which are not how God moves. Faith.. its ALWAYS faith. You MUST believe.

Don't take ANY persons word for it. Read that bible what does HE say what does HE promise? Then you stand.. and then stand. No matter how bad or dark it gets. He can not lie. Trust what HE said. If you knew God could never lie. We would not be talking right now. The fact is so many don't believe what He said. We believe what so and so said by what happen to them. We don't know there heart at all.

Oh please don't stick in in some group. I am a follower of Christ. He is my God. If is doubting. I don't walk by what I see hear of feel. Faith. I sat with a friend many years ago talking about things like this. He said "you just believe this because so and so (word of Faith preachers) said it". So I show him by bible. Well lol TONS of verses underlined circled. I told him "I don't agree with them.. they agree with me". See God show'd me this. Out of all the wonders I have seen been so blessed.

The only reason is.. I can think of come up with is.. when I read what He said.. I don't ever question it. I always use it for GOOD for bad. If I am IN fear I say NO.. God has not given me the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. Thats mine! He said it.. I am His He is in me. I have the peace of God.. I have HIS armor on and on. ASK HIM! Hes real. DON'T I mean DON'T take my word for anything. Believe HIM

If I offended forgive me. Love you .. you say JESUS is lord? THATS what matters amen

So..let me just reduce this to one question....if someone is not healed, does that mean it is his fault, because he doesn't have enough faith to be healed?

If someone suffers from cerebral palsy, and are a believer, they have a guarantee regarding healing, and if they are not healed, it is their own fault because they do not have faith?

What about my friend Reva, who suffered the loss of her son by decapitation, her grandson who choked on phlegm due to undiagnosed pneumonia, and contracted cancer three different times, causing permanent damage to her body? Was she faithless, or was she faithful as she continued to praise God through all those events, and realizing that God was using them to transform her into the image of Christ?

Somehow the person who believes in guarantees of healing doesn't have much to say when the questions are asked directly. They won't come right and tell people that it is their own fault because they don't have enough faith to be healed. Yet, some of the same ones are fat, old, balding, wearing hearing aids and glasses, yet they seem to ignore the fact that they and everyone around them is aging and falling apart.

Pondering upon the inconsistencies in this worldview is amusing sometimes.

When someone declare Jesus as his Lord and believe he rose from the dead, how do you know that he is indeed saved?

The fruit of their lives, which includes some level of biblical discernment.

What is your proposed evidence? Doing all the works of Jesus, including raising the dead?

If so, I haven't seen any such individuals. I only hear about them from people who lack discernment.

One can read Scripture and see that suffering is decreed for believers.

We are told: "Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory." (Romans8:17)