Are Christians given empowerment to do all the works Jesus did? Bethel and their resurrection claims
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Perhaps it is semantics, but I understood there were at least some individuals associated with Bethel that were prophesying that God would raise the little girl from death (in this time). If this is true, I agree that most Christians (and certainly God) would view such as blasphemy.
I would be interested to understand how others believe it not to be blasphemy, false prophesy, etc. etc. In Israelite times, such was a capital crime.
I would be interested to understand how others believe it not to be blasphemy, false prophesy, etc. etc. In Israelite times, such was a capital crime.
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what Bethel and others like them do is not actually blasphemy...if you understand the word
the op is given to using superlative definitions for things he disagrees with for the effect as much as for his exaggerated view of his own religiosity
are they in error? I certainly believe that they are regarding certain aspects, however to say they are blaspheming is not accurate and the only way to make it so, is to falsely accuse them
which is what the op is very very good at doing
as what they say will happen does not happen, it is certainly obvious God did not say and did not do
should that give people pause? of course it should
however, the accusation they are blaspheming is just as false
when you have an agenda, and the op most certainly does, you have to continually flog all and sundry that you find fault with
personally, I find great fault with cessationism and all the various attacks on the gifts of the Holy Spirit
false accusation is equally bad no matter the direction from which it stems
if you are not a Calvinist. the perhaps acquaint yourself with all the accusations hurled by the op. read his taglines...or signature as it is referred to in this forum
do you worship a false deity whom you wish to have emasculated? if you believe as does the op, then perhaps you agree with his flagrant and abusive language hurled at people who are Calvinists
I only know of one way to be saved and it is not following the route penned by Calvin
it is through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ
but look at what the op says...who does he follow? seriously pay attention and think about it and remember that blasphemy is actually saying the work of the Holy Spirit is the work of the devil
Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
How is stating that God will raise someone from the dead, and God does not, not taking God's name in vain? It is alleged some have said that God said the dead girl would be raised. Hence the accusation of blasphemy - taking of His Name in vain.
How is stating that God will raise someone from the dead, and God does not, not taking God's name in vain? It is alleged some have said that God said the dead girl would be raised. Hence the accusation of blasphemy - taking of His Name in vain.
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One issue is severity of sin is no longer seen as such. Because of false grace views many see God as a pushover, at our beck and call, domesticated, truncated.
Unfortunately his Name can take a hit and few even bat an eye. But as witnessed in this thread some are more interested in their "name" than his, thus they defend this blasphemous ministry, and will not admit the error and grievous sin.
Unfortunately his Name can take a hit and few even bat an eye. But as witnessed in this thread some are more interested in their "name" than his, thus they defend this blasphemous ministry, and will not admit the error and grievous sin.
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well that has been disproved many times in this very forum
no one has ever stated the nonsense that you attribute to those who disagree with Calvin's teachings
perhaps you need to simply try to stick to what others here have told you over and over again rather than keep up with your denials of what others say here
I have no expectations you will be reasonable in that regard however as you have never given indication that you are capable of reasoning other people also reason . it's Calvin or nothing
7
Instead of avoiding my post Mr Young, address it. otherwise I don't think I can take you seriously. your verse you provided is part of the 10 commandments, yet, there is even more stringent warnings in the NT regarding blasphemy which I tried to get you to see
but of course, actually answering the question of whether or not you are also Calvinist in your leanings would answer better
do you agree with what the op has attached to all his posts?
"7seasrekeyed, post: 4115798, member: 260610"]what Bethel and others like them do is not actually blasphemy...if you understand the word
the op is given to using superlative definitions for things he disagrees with for the effect as much as for his exaggerated view of his own religiosity
are they in error? I certainly believe that they are regarding certain aspects, however to say they are blaspheming is not accurate and the only way to make it so, is to falsely accuse them
which is what the op is very very good at doing
as what they say will happen does not happen, it is certainly obvious God did not say and did not do
should that give people pause? of course it should
however, the accusation they are blaspheming is just as false
when you have an agenda, and the op most certainly does, you have to continually flog all and sundry that you find fault with
personally, I find great fault with cessationism and all the various attacks on the gifts of the Holy Spirit
false accusation is equally bad no matter the direction from which it stems
if you are not a Calvinist. the perhaps acquaint yourself with all the accusations hurled by the op. read his taglines...or signature as it is referred to in this forum
do you worship a false deity whom you wish to have emasculated? if you believe as does the op, then perhaps you agree with his flagrant and abusive language hurled at people who are Calvinists
I only know of one way to be saved and it is not following the route penned by Calvin
it is through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ
but look at what the op says...who does he follow? seriously pay attention and think about it and remember that blasphemy is actually saying the work of the Holy Spirit is the work of the devil
but of course, actually answering the question of whether or not you are also Calvinist in your leanings would answer better
do you agree with what the op has attached to all his posts?
"7seasrekeyed, post: 4115798, member: 260610"]what Bethel and others like them do is not actually blasphemy...if you understand the word
the op is given to using superlative definitions for things he disagrees with for the effect as much as for his exaggerated view of his own religiosity
are they in error? I certainly believe that they are regarding certain aspects, however to say they are blaspheming is not accurate and the only way to make it so, is to falsely accuse them
which is what the op is very very good at doing
as what they say will happen does not happen, it is certainly obvious God did not say and did not do
should that give people pause? of course it should
however, the accusation they are blaspheming is just as false
when you have an agenda, and the op most certainly does, you have to continually flog all and sundry that you find fault with
personally, I find great fault with cessationism and all the various attacks on the gifts of the Holy Spirit
false accusation is equally bad no matter the direction from which it stems
if you are not a Calvinist. the perhaps acquaint yourself with all the accusations hurled by the op. read his taglines...or signature as it is referred to in this forum
do you worship a false deity whom you wish to have emasculated? if you believe as does the op, then perhaps you agree with his flagrant and abusive language hurled at people who are Calvinists
I only know of one way to be saved and it is not following the route penned by Calvin
it is through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ
but look at what the op says...who does he follow? seriously pay attention and think about it and remember that blasphemy is actually saying the work of the Holy Spirit is the work of the devil
No.
He uses trials and suffering to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
This is a clear Scriptural teaching.
But, humans don't like this teaching because it requires that they depart from their Play-doh god that conforms to their expectations.
Just so we are clear, God blesses his people, too. He blesses them primarily with his presence and eternal life. He also blesses them with material things and good health when it is his sovereign will, too.
It depends on his will for a particular individual and their given season in life, etcetera.
Like I have said, suffering is actually a blessing if one doesn't have a Sesame Street, pre-school theology. James 1 tells us this..he talks about trials and then proceeds to say that every good gift comes from the Father of lights (God).
Suffering reduces one's hope in the things of this world, and exposes one's heart to the remaining indwelling sinfulness. It is pretty easy to be content in the midst of plenty and comfort, but take that away and see what happens. That is part of why ancient Israel grumbled..they experienced hardship. What should that have told them? That their hearts still were hard and corrupt.
Many probably thought, during times of plenty, that their hearts were in fine shape before God. Yet, in reality, their hearts were corrupt but they did not know it and were not concerned with it because all their desires were being met.
This is part of why the prosperity gospel is a bunch of nonsense.
He uses trials and suffering to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
This is a clear Scriptural teaching.
But, humans don't like this teaching because it requires that they depart from their Play-doh god that conforms to their expectations.
Just so we are clear, God blesses his people, too. He blesses them primarily with his presence and eternal life. He also blesses them with material things and good health when it is his sovereign will, too.
It depends on his will for a particular individual and their given season in life, etcetera.
Like I have said, suffering is actually a blessing if one doesn't have a Sesame Street, pre-school theology. James 1 tells us this..he talks about trials and then proceeds to say that every good gift comes from the Father of lights (God).
Suffering reduces one's hope in the things of this world, and exposes one's heart to the remaining indwelling sinfulness. It is pretty easy to be content in the midst of plenty and comfort, but take that away and see what happens. That is part of why ancient Israel grumbled..they experienced hardship. What should that have told them? That their hearts still were hard and corrupt.
Many probably thought, during times of plenty, that their hearts were in fine shape before God. Yet, in reality, their hearts were corrupt but they did not know it and were not concerned with it because all their desires were being met.
This is part of why the prosperity gospel is a bunch of nonsense.
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yes here in news it was about that raising someone back to life. it didnt happen and now everyoen is making fun of christianity and God.
thats the method to be used, get some deceived heretics to make false prophecies and claims and make a big media circus then nothing happens and God's name is laughed at among the gentiles which is what the satanic media loves. just like happened with that false prophet harold camping who destroyed many lifes with his fake prophecy people quit their jobs sold their houses to spread his lie. all these guys are deceivers anyway who cares about them dont know why people give these treehuggers any attention. this also proves many professing christians are absolute retar*ds like legitimate slow in the head. and this is coming from someone who suffered head trauma and i havent been the same ever since. but anyone who falls for a guy like harold camping is simply so stupid they deserve to be deceived i dont know how they can think and breathe at the same time. i honestly feel like it, but i still cant help but feel bad for them, because i know they probably had good intentions.
but also maybe its not about intellectual. maybe its spiritual. that some people dont receive truth so God is teh one giving them over to strong delusion and makes them fall for these false prophets? thats also possible. i think its both.
thats the method to be used, get some deceived heretics to make false prophecies and claims and make a big media circus then nothing happens and God's name is laughed at among the gentiles which is what the satanic media loves. just like happened with that false prophet harold camping who destroyed many lifes with his fake prophecy people quit their jobs sold their houses to spread his lie. all these guys are deceivers anyway who cares about them dont know why people give these treehuggers any attention. this also proves many professing christians are absolute retar*ds like legitimate slow in the head. and this is coming from someone who suffered head trauma and i havent been the same ever since. but anyone who falls for a guy like harold camping is simply so stupid they deserve to be deceived i dont know how they can think and breathe at the same time. i honestly feel like it, but i still cant help but feel bad for them, because i know they probably had good intentions.
but also maybe its not about intellectual. maybe its spiritual. that some people dont receive truth so God is teh one giving them over to strong delusion and makes them fall for these false prophets? thats also possible. i think its both.
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K
Amen. Psalms 55:22 Give your burdens to the LORD, and he will take care of you. He will not permit the godly to slip and fall.
It is just like some people to say, "I could never do such a thing!!" Come to find themselves in certain situation and they end up doing worst. I like to say of myself, "except for the grace of God there go I."
It is just like some people to say, "I could never do such a thing!!" Come to find themselves in certain situation and they end up doing worst. I like to say of myself, "except for the grace of God there go I."
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There's nothing wrong with asking God to protect and bless you.
However, it is wrong to demand or declare it, and to fail to acknowledge that suffering serves God's purpose of conforming the believer to the image of Christ.
Therefore, if someone is a believer and they are in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives, despite repeated prayer, God is perfectly aware of it, and it serves his sovereign purpose for conforming the person to the image of Christ.
And, who knows what wondrous things God has planned for that person in the eternal state?
Additionally, suffering and hardship serves the purpose of exposing peoples' innermost nature. Their response to it is like a thermometer that shows them what evil and distrust of God still lingers within.
However, it is wrong to demand or declare it, and to fail to acknowledge that suffering serves God's purpose of conforming the believer to the image of Christ.
Therefore, if someone is a believer and they are in a wheelchair for the rest of their lives, despite repeated prayer, God is perfectly aware of it, and it serves his sovereign purpose for conforming the person to the image of Christ.
And, who knows what wondrous things God has planned for that person in the eternal state?
Additionally, suffering and hardship serves the purpose of exposing peoples' innermost nature. Their response to it is like a thermometer that shows them what evil and distrust of God still lingers within.
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Good one..I didn't think of that particular Scripture..
If one understands the Trinity properly, such verses are not an issue
If one understands the Trinity properly, such verses are not an issue
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SO the error of the guy Bill Johnson now discredits the very word of God completely ? And because one person made a claim God is enable to heal or raise the dead? You use the term " common claim by Charismatics" when is fact it's a quote of Jesus Himself. Found in the Gospel of John 14:12.
The "work" and "greater works " can and should be debated however, the application of doing greater works is not a wrong one. IF you understand what is the greater work? It is easy for one to say "those people" did not do greater works. I ask you now that you have provided the error of Bill Johnson can you also provide a contrast (correction) of what TODAYs greater work would look like and why are you not doing it if you are not? Please explain what is the greater work Jesus was speaking of? I would like to have your understanding and not some commentary. Thank you.
The "work" and "greater works " can and should be debated however, the application of doing greater works is not a wrong one. IF you understand what is the greater work? It is easy for one to say "those people" did not do greater works. I ask you now that you have provided the error of Bill Johnson can you also provide a contrast (correction) of what TODAYs greater work would look like and why are you not doing it if you are not? Please explain what is the greater work Jesus was speaking of? I would like to have your understanding and not some commentary. Thank you.
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