John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

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Moses_Young

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Sep 15, 2019
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What does this mean according to Scripture? Scripture says that God is perfect in knowledge.
Exactly. So, because God knows everything, and because He is capable of knowing one man before he was in the womb, He is therefore capable of knowing all men before they were in the womb, therefore, He knew all of us before we were in the womb. Right?

Can you cite one?
 

John146

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Exactly. So, because God knows everything, and because He is capable of knowing one man before he was in the womb, He is therefore capable of knowing all men before they were in the womb, therefore, He knew all of us before we were in the womb. Right?

Can you cite one?
Prophecy is the Lord determining the future by what He has declared. Everything else is not prophesy. I have not seen in Scripture where God knows all future decisions? Has God chosen to limit His knowledge concerning the future when dealing with man? I’ve been stuck on this for sometime. I only want to go by what Scripture tells me.
 

Moses_Young

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Prophecy is the Lord determining the future by what He has declared. Everything else is not prophesy. I have not seen in Scripture where God knows all future decisions? Has God chosen to limit His knowledge concerning the future when dealing with man? I’ve been stuck on this for sometime. I only want to go by what Scripture tells me.
If God knows all things, surely He knows the future, and all associated decisions? I don't understand this point really. If God doesn't know all things, then He doesn't. But then I would argue He is not perfect in knowledge, and the bible is wrong... So He must know all things.
 

John146

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If God knows all things, surely He knows the future, and all associated decisions? I don't understand this point really. If God doesn't know all things, then He doesn't. But then I would argue He is not perfect in knowledge, and the bible is wrong... So He must know all things.
Are man’s future decisions knowledge to be known? Or has God given man the freedom to choose? God knows all possible outcomes based upon our decisions. For example, the book of Jonah.
 

Moses_Young

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Are man’s future decisions knowledge to be known? Or has God given man the freedom to choose? God knows all possible outcomes based upon our decisions. For example, the book of Jonah.
Yes and yes. I agree.
 

John146

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Yes and yes. I agree.
Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent? God declared that in forty days Nineveh would be destroyed. Did God lie? Did God change His mind based on the response of Nineveh to His word?
 

Moses_Young

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Did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent? God declared that in forty days Nineveh would be destroyed. Did God lie? Did God change His mind based on the response of Nineveh to His word?
Yes. No. Yes. Nineveh was still destroyed, but their repentence delayed God's wrath.
 

John146

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Yes. No. Yes. Nineveh was still destroyed, but their repentence delayed God's wrath.
God declared that Nineveh was going to be destroyed in forty days, yet Nineveh was not destroyed in forty days. What gives?
 

Moses_Young

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God declared that Nineveh was going to be destroyed in forty days, yet Nineveh was not destroyed in forty days. What gives?
Ezekiel 18:20 - 30
"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
 

John146

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Ezekiel 18:20 - 30
"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
Yes, and this...

Jeremiah 18
7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

If they do this, then I’ll do this. You’re choice. God’s mind can be changed based upon our response to His word.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Ezekiel 18:20 - 30
"But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye."
So the question remains, did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would repent and not destroy them in forty days?
 

oyster67

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May 24, 2014
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I know someone who believes that we are all children of God, regardless of whether they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior or not. This person was sincere and said to me, "God loves you". I felt compelled to return the gesture back to them and tell them that "God loves you too", but I refrained from doing this because I didn't want to mislead them.

What might you suggest I say to this person next time the topic of God's love comes up?
Tell them that God loves them.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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Are man’s future decisions knowledge to be known? Or has God given man the freedom to choose? God knows all possible outcomes based upon our decisions. For example, the book of Jonah.
so you're an "open theist" -- you don't believe God is omniscient, and you think you get around the obvious blasphemy by claiming knowledge doesn't exist until mankind creates it by his own decisions? so that man is ultimately the creator of information, and God is stuck in time & mentally subservient to its flow, constantly growing in knowledge as mankind creates it?
you say 'God knows as much as is possible to know, but since man is absolutely free it is impossible for God to know what man thinks, believes or does before he thinks it, does it or believes it'

that's hogwash, John. any one single fulfilled prophecy destroys that view.
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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So the question remains, did God know ahead of time that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would repent and not destroy them in forty days?
yes. God knew this before He created the earth. there is no time in which God was/is/will ever be ignorant of anything, and God is before time - time is His own creation, and He put Jonah & Ninevah in it, who are also His own creations.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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so you're an "open theist" -- you don't believe God is omniscient, and you think you get around the obvious blasphemy by claiming knowledge doesn't exist until mankind creates it by his own decisions? so that man is ultimately the creator of information, and God is stuck in time & mentally subservient to its flow, constantly growing in knowledge as mankind creates it?
you say '
God knows as much as is possible to know, but since man is absolutely free it is impossible for God to know what man thinks, believes or does before he thinks it, does it or believes it'


that's hogwash, John. any one single fulfilled prophecy destroys that view.
Never heard of open theism until this board. I just go by Scripture.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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yes. God knew this before He created the earth. there is no time in which God was/is/will ever be ignorant of anything, and God is before time - time is His own creation, and He put Jonah & Ninevah in it, who are also His own creations.
Did God lie when He said that Nineveh would be destroyed in forty days? God said He would, but doesn’t. What gives? Without adding to the word...

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 

foolishone

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Aug 13, 2017
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Yeshua ain't that white. Being a carpenter and spending so much time in His land you have to brown Him up a bit. And this handsome dude is not it either. " He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him." Let's get the truth right about the One who is the Way the Truth and the Life.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Yeshua ain't that white. Being a carpenter and spending so much time in His land you have to brown Him up a bit. And this handsome dude is not it either. " He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him." Let's get the truth right about the One who is the Way the Truth and the Life.
What He looked like in His resurrected body made Him unrecognizable to some of those Who knew Him, for they were kept from recognizing Him. Assume what you like.