John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).

[posthuman]

God knew Lazarus, but did not know the rich man in hell. His name had been blotted out of the book of life. It’s as if he never existed in God’s eyes.

who writes in this book?

do they know what they write?

 

[John146]

hmm then He must have known us for quite some time. before the womb, in fact, if your statement here applies as early as our very first choices. the OT has several examples of Him speaking about people who had not yet been born, or in cases even conceived.

Scripture never states that God knew us before the womb.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Ezekiel speaks of the Israelite people and the passage has nothing to do with the Gentile (your out of context again and again). I do think, you need to rightly divide the word my friend. Use context to understand what it says. Because you don't want to quote the entire passage in context you are confused my friend as I see it. Your Ephesians 2:5 will point you to Eph. 2:8 that by grace takes faith to be saved. Taking one text without consideration to the other text will con you.

Ezekiel 36 King James Version (KJV)
36 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord:

2 Thus saith the Lord God; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

5 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

13 Thus saith the Lord God; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord God.

15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord God.

16 Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the Lord, and are gone forth out of his land.

21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

33 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

In my understanding and harmonizing the scriptures, it is you that is not keeping the scriptures in context. The house of Israel has reference to Jacob/Israel, which is representative of God's elect. All of the nation of Israel is not of the elect, only the house of Israel, which is Jacob/Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel. You are not rightly dividing the word, unless you divide the Jacob/Israel from the nation of Israel. The inspired word of God is not written to the non elect, but to the elect, informing them that their eternal destination is already accomplished by Jesus on the cross and that they have been given the imputed righteousness of Christ, and, therefore, do not have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. The scriptures are written to the elect, telling them how God wants them to live their lives while they sojourn here on earth.

 

[John146]

In my understanding and harmonizing the scriptures, it is you that is not keeping the scriptures in context. The house of Israel has reference to Jacob/Israel, which is representative of God's elect. All of the nation of Israel is not of the elect, only the house of Israel, which is Jacob/Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called no more Jacob, but to be called Israel. You are not rightly dividing the word, unless you divide the Jacob/Israel from the nation of Israel. The inspired word of God is not written to the non elect, but to the elect, informing them that their eternal destination is already accomplished by Jesus on the cross and that they have been given the imputed righteousness of Christ, and, therefore, do not have to go about trying to establish their own righteousness by their good works. The scriptures are written to the elect, telling them how God wants them to live their lives while they sojourn here on earth.

Jacob/Israel had 12 sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel. Those twelve tribes make up the nation of Israel. No Gentile is part of the nation of Israel.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jacob/Israel had 12 sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel. Those twelve tribes make up the nation of Israel. No Gentile is part of the nation of Israel.

Romans 9:6, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

 

[John146]

Romans 9:6, For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel

Dealing with the election of Israel for the seed line. Salvation is not in the chapter.

 

[Hevosmies]

Jacob/Israel had 12 sons which became the twelve tribes of Israel. Those twelve tribes make up the nation of Israel. No Gentile is part of the nation of Israel.

No argument there! We have established now that ISRAEL = descendants of Jacob, RIGHT?

My question is: How can we know WHO these people are today? After 70AD its been a mess. We dont got no genealogies anymore, we got white folks in israel with RUSSIAN hairyhats saying they're jews. We got ethiopians saying they're jews (beta israel), we got some wingnut african american groups saying they are the TRUE descendants of Jacob, we got all types of people claiming things.

One thing many of these got in common is they follow the Torah.. BUT are they of Jacob when it comes to BLOODLINE? I dont know, i really dont and neither does anyone else. Ashkenaz is a gentile name in the Bible.

One thing we DO KNOW is that in the Bible Paul is thought to be an Egyptian, Moses passes off as an Egyptian, and Abraham is from what we today call TURKEY. These are all arabic/middle-eastern/berber looking folks, not white europeans or asians or any other type of people. Thats the BIBLE's testimony. Then we can say that OK these people got scattered, they mingled with the local populations a bit and now they look different and are white, but if thats the case, NOT SO SURE they could pass as Jews anymore being so mixed over centuries. Why I say that is: If you look at the captivity periods and teh many dislocations of Israel in the Old Testament, you notice that they gotta prove their lineage and they are ALREADY struggling to do so after 70years, IMAGINE what its gonna be like after 2000!


All this to say: Everyone out here claiming to be Jewish these days, I know many zionist Christians who LOVE to brag about being jewish, they did a DNA test, cant speak a word of hebrew, dont know nothing about the Jewish culture or Torah, arent circumcised yet they are boasting about being Jews. CMON BRUH. Why you gotta do us like that?

I SHOULD OF MADE A SEPARATE THREAD ABOUT THIS. and I probably will, if the subject isnt too touchy. I know you cant say anything today about anything.

 

[Hevosmies]

No argument there! We have established now that ISRAEL = descendants of Jacob, RIGHT?

My question is: How can we know WHO these people are today? After 70AD its been a mess. We dont got no genealogies anymore, we got white folks in israel with RUSSIAN hairyhats saying they're jews. We got ethiopians saying they're jews (beta israel), we got some wingnut african american groups saying they are the TRUE descendants of Jacob, we got all types of people claiming things.

One thing many of these got in common is they follow the Torah.. BUT are they of Jacob when it comes to BLOODLINE? I dont know, i really dont and neither does anyone else. Ashkenaz is a gentile name in the Bible.

One thing we DO KNOW is that in the Bible Paul is thought to be an Egyptian, Moses passes off as an Egyptian, and Abraham is from what we today call TURKEY. These are all arabic/middle-eastern/berber looking folks, not white europeans or asians or any other type of people. Thats the BIBLE's testimony. Then we can say that OK these people got scattered, they mingled with the local populations a bit and now they look different and are white, but if thats the case, NOT SO SURE they could pass as Jews anymore being so mixed over centuries. Why I say that is: If you look at the captivity periods and teh many dislocations of Israel in the Old Testament, you notice that they gotta prove their lineage and they are ALREADY struggling to do so after 70years, IMAGINE what its gonna be like after 2000!


All this to say: Everyone out here claiming to be Jewish these days, I know many zionist Christians who LOVE to brag about being jewish, they did a DNA test, cant speak a word of hebrew, dont know nothing about the Jewish culture or Torah, arent circumcised yet they are boasting about being Jews. CMON BRUH. Why you gotta do us like that?

I SHOULD OF MADE A SEPARATE THREAD ABOUT THIS. and I probably will, if the subject isnt too touchy. I know you cant say anything today about anything.

I did make a thread about this, if the mods give it a pass should be up and running SOON, hit me up on there John I'd like to hear your opinion

SORRY UNITEDWITHCHRIST for derailing your thread. My bad homie

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

God loves everyone, sinner's included. That is a good thing, Because both you and I and everybody else started out that way. God hates sin, but He loved lost sinners to the point of giving His only begotten Son.

1 Timothy 1
1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I know someone who believes that we are all children of God, regardless of whether they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior or not. This person was sincere and said to me, "God loves you". I felt compelled to return the gesture back to them and tell them that "God loves you too", but I refrained from doing this because I didn't want to mislead them.

What might you suggest I say to this person next time the topic of God's love comes up?

 

[Heart_Melody]

Scripture never states that God knew us before the womb.

Hello there...
I am not sure - But I thought that Jeremiah 1:5 said:

New International Version
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

New Living Translation
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”

English Standard Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Berean Study Bible
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

New American Standard Bible
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

King James Bible
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Christian Standard Bible
I chose you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart before you were born. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Contemporary English Version
"Jeremiah, I am your Creator, and before you were born, I chose you to speak for me to the nations."

Good News Translation
"I chose you before I gave you life, and before you were born I selected you to be a prophet to the nations."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I chose you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart before you were born. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

International Standard Version
"I knew you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart for me before you were born; I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

NET Bible
"Before I formed you in your mother's womb I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

New Heart English Bible
"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

JPS Tanakh 1917
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, And before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

New American Standard 1977
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the Gentiles.

King James 2000 Bible
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.

American King James Version
Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

American Standard Version
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth from the womb, I sanctified thee; I appointed thee a prophet to the nations.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations.

Darby Bible Translation
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I hallowed thee, I appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

English Revised Version
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Webster's Bible Translation
Before I formed thee in embryo I knew thee; and before thou wast born I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet to the nations.

World English Bible
"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Young's Literal Translation
'Before I form thee in the belly, I have known thee; and before thou comest forth from the womb I have separated thee, a prophet to nations I have made thee.'

there are many more like this.

For instance - The parents of John the Baptist were told of John before his conception. His purpose and everything and others. So I would disagree that God does not know us before our conception. He planned to create us after all - and therefore I would hope he put a thought or two into it

what do you think?

 

[Moses_Young]

All this to say: Everyone out here claiming to be Jewish these days, I know many zionist Christians who LOVE to brag about being jewish, they did a DNA test, cant speak a word of hebrew, dont know nothing about the Jewish culture or Torah, arent circumcised yet they are boasting about being Jews. CMON BRUH. Why you gotta do us like that?

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Doesn't this mean all Christians are truly circumcised, and truly Jews?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Dealing with the election of Israel for the seed line. Salvation is not in the chapter.

Your mindset is that there is only one Israel referenced in the scriptures. There is a difference in the nation of Israel and the house of Israel, which is Jacob/Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, Gen 33:28. The Jacob/Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and and people, and nation. Rev 5:9. Most of the scriptures that reference Israel is referencing Jacob/Israel.

 

[John146]

Hello there...
I am not sure - But I thought that Jeremiah 1:5 said:

New International Version
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

New Living Translation
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”

English Standard Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Berean Study Bible
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

New American Standard Bible
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

New King James Version
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

King James Bible
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Christian Standard Bible
I chose you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart before you were born. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

Contemporary English Version
"Jeremiah, I am your Creator, and before you were born, I chose you to speak for me to the nations."

Good News Translation
"I chose you before I gave you life, and before you were born I selected you to be a prophet to the nations."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I chose you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart before you were born. I appointed you a prophet to the nations.

International Standard Version
"I knew you before I formed you in the womb; I set you apart for me before you were born; I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

NET Bible
"Before I formed you in your mother's womb I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

New Heart English Bible
"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations."

JPS Tanakh 1917
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, And before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

New American Standard 1977
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the Gentiles.

King James 2000 Bible
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet unto the nations.

American King James Version
Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you, and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

American Standard Version
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth from the womb, I sanctified thee; I appointed thee a prophet to the nations.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations.

Darby Bible Translation
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I hallowed thee, I appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

English Revised Version
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee; I have appointed thee a prophet unto the nations.

Webster's Bible Translation
Before I formed thee in embryo I knew thee; and before thou wast born I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet to the nations.

World English Bible
"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you. Before you came forth out of the womb, I sanctified you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

Young's Literal Translation
'Before I form thee in the belly, I have known thee; and before thou comest forth from the womb I have separated thee, a prophet to nations I have made thee.'

there are many more like this.

For instance - The parents of John the Baptist were told of John before his conception. His purpose and everything and others. So I would disagree that God does not know us before our conception. He planned to create us after all - and therefore I would hope he put a thought or two into it

what do you think?

Before we are formed in the womb, God knows us. Notice it says before we are formed, not before we were in the womb. At our conception, before we are formed, God knows us.

John’s birth was prophesied in the OT. He was to go before the Lord preparing the way. His birth is an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. Was your birth prophesied in Scripture?

 

[John146]

Your mindset is that there is only one Israel referenced in the scriptures. There is a difference in the nation of Israel and the house of Israel, which is Jacob/Israel. God changed Jacob's name to be called Israel, Gen 33:28. The Jacob/Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and and people, and nation. Rev 5:9. Most of the scriptures that reference Israel is referencing Jacob/Israel.

Revelation 5:9 does not mention Israel or Jacob. You’re adding your opinions to Scripture.

 

[Heart_Melody]

Before we are formed in the womb, God knows us. Notice it says before we are formed, not before we were in the womb. At our conception, before we are formed, God knows us.

John’s birth was prophesied in the OT. He was to go before the Lord preparing the way. His birth is an exception to the rule, not the rule itself. Was your birth prophesied in Scripture?

If you are nit-picking - then I could say it doesn't say "I knew you at conception" but before you were formed. That is any given time before I was formed.

Also I wasn't prophecied in scripture surprisingly enough 😂

 

[Moses_Young]

If you are nit-picking - then I could say it doesn't say "I knew you at conception" but before you were formed. That is any given time before I was formed.

Also I wasn't prophecied in scripture surprisingly enough 😂

I agree. If God knows everything, and He knew his prophet before he was in the womb, I think the same can logically be inferred for us. Even those of us unfortunate enough not to have been prophesied about.

 

[John146]

If you are nit-picking - then I could say it doesn't say "I knew you at conception" but before you were formed. That is any given time before I was formed.

Also I wasn't prophecied in scripture surprisingly enough 😂

Psalm 139 helps with this concept.

15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Imperfect, not formed. The Lord fashioned me, put me together including hands, feet, face, etc..

 

[John146]

I agree. If God knows everything, and He knew his prophet before he was in the womb, I think the same can logically be inferred for us. Even those of us unfortunate enough not to have been prophesied about.

The exception only proves the rule.

 

[Moses_Young]

The exception only proves the rule.

Does God make exceptions?

 

[John146]

If God knows everything

What does this mean according to Scripture? Scripture says that God is perfect in knowledge.