Deny yourself and take up your Cross

I agree!
I haven't been to a " church" for many yes except by family request however I still assemble with the believers in fellowship.

If the Lord leads me I will go and join but the christians at Antioch worshiped in home fellowships ,among rocks ,catacombs or where ever the Holy Spirit led them to assemble and share the bread of life!

I believe a lot of Christendom are fed up as well with the many traditional man made buildings of congretations and doctrines!

Blessing on both of you may He richly bless your faith and lead us ALL!

This is the crazy part. Because think about it. Can someone truly have the Holy Spirit and then turn to mammon? Or was mammon always in their hearts? One cannot serve two masters. So it makes me questions if their motives all along were selfish ambition. Money is the root to all evil.

I think it’s the same as throughout history; power corrupts. Men are Lovers of themselves instead of Lovers of God.

I agree. So what do we do? Im at that point in my walk, where Im just like what do I do? I know for example the church where I go for bible studies is so lost. Ive been speaking up more, my next step is to speak to the board and show them scripture on all their errors. I been praying if its Gods will I will do it and He will give me the Words. Like He has been. Im His vessel and I feel the urgency to speak out against these false teachers. The Spirit compels me.

So I ask you, what do you suggest we do?

I believe there may be a setting apart or coming out for those who follow the whole word of God and walk therein!....JMO!

I do too. Thats whats been at the forefront not only in my life but in the brothers as well.. they feel the same way. We all have the Holy Spirit. Im glad you feel the same way. Its confirmation. God does the work, we just have to be willing to do His will.

What does it really mean to deny oneself and take up their Cross? For me, that means I have to give up the life I have known for the last 20 years and submit fully to His will. Being Human, I’m stubborn in ways, but I know that it must be done or I am done. What does it mean for you? I welcome all replies. God bless you All!

Amen!

He wants acceptable vessels!

Those not tainted by the doctrine of men.

I have looked into what the secular church calls underground church.

They set up homes they buy and have bible studies and help for those Jesus told us is a part of our responsibility to help and love!

None are near my home however.

I know this flies in the face of today's society.

I want to be led by Him only!

I try the spirits and test the waters!

If He tells me "GO" I will act upon His word!

Be blessed in Him!
Praying always!

Underground church? Is that like what they have in China? But ya having fellowship in homes is more along the lines of what scripture shows the early church doing. The church system we have now seems derived from the roman catholic system. The protestants didnt help much from the looks of it. They still resemble eachother and both use the same sunday system. Collecting offerings. Wolves....

The Believers Form a Community
All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord’s Supper), and to prayer.
A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity— all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved. - Acts 2:42-47 (NLT)

I know that it must be done or I am done.

Relax. We’re saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. God’s grace is sufficient, thus you’re never “done”.

I agree. So what do we do? Im at that point in my walk, where Im just like what do I do? I know for example the church where I go for bible studies is so lost. Ive been speaking up more, my next step is to speak to the board and show them scripture on all their errors. I been praying if its Gods will I will do it and He will give me the Words. Like He has been. Im His vessel and I feel the urgency to speak out against these false teachers. The Spirit compels me.

So I ask you, what do you suggest we do?

Relax. We’re saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. God’s grace is sufficient, thus you’re never “done”.

I would be careful when exposing false doctrine in your church, its a good thing........ but are you prepared?

This is what may or may not happen:
1. They will flat out reject you and your claims.
2. They will flat out reject you and your claims, but then later on be enlightened by God's Spirit and see the folly of their ways.
3. They will thank you straight away and then correct their wicked ways, the church will be changed and they will give you a Big Hug.

BTW, the 3rd option is usually more rare

If you wan't to challenge something in your church, God's not going to give you the words in some mysterious weird way.......

Indeed you have to show these thing from the bible itself and you have to know your stuff. God will aid you in this.

So if you understand these things, then your ready, good luck.

Yea its been a fear. Fear of confrontation but God has been urging me to speak and preparring me over the past year. Gods been teaching me, but i hadnt been ready for confrontation or to be that bold before. But the Holy Spirit has helped give me boldness.

I dont know what God will do after that kind of situation, but I know the bible has shown me the example Paul set forth when correcting believers in the Church. The scriptures that show how God used him has been valuable to me and others. Im learning to just forget how I feel and just seek to honor Him and have Gods approval rather than men.

Best case scenario they share the same Holy Spirit and yield to scripture as final authority as they should. But my gut tells me that wont happen. They lack the Holy Spirit from what Ive discerned. But this will be the final straw to show where their heart really lies. Proof is in the pudding. This is Gods doing not mine. Im just a vessel.

More then likely I will be used to bring division. Seperate the real flock from the goats. We cant be entangled with false followers of Christ who refuse to submit and obey God, they only want the riches and the eternal life promised to heirs in Christ yet they do not belong to Christ. They dont feel they have to give up anything they feel they only need to believe Jesus died on the cross. Even the demons believe this.

The rich man was turned away for refusing to give up his material possesions. It wasnt the material possessions that was the problem it was his attachment to this world and what the world provides. We must DENY OURSELVES AND THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. If you havent done that, you havent repented yet. And if you havent repented theres no way you can have the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:29 But Peter and the apostles replied, “We must obey God rather than any human authority. 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead after you killed him by hanging him on a cross. 31 Then God put him in the place of honor at his right hand as Prince and Savior. He did this so the people of Israel would repent of their sins and be forgiven. 32 We are witnesses of these things and so is the Holy Spirit, who is given by God to those who obey him.”

This is what you said in the above comment: "We must DENY OURSELVES AND THAT INCLUDES EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE. If you havent done that, you havent repented yet. And if you havent repented theres no way you can have the Holy Spirit"

Your comment here sounds a bit dangerous and i would say not intune with biblical repentance, please explain a bit more if you would

Let us start here before we continue with the whole church thing. They have many areas that need to be addressed and it will happen on Gods time.

Look what Jesus taught. Alright i shall look

Matthew 10:34 “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
35 ‘I have come to set a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36 Your enemies will be right in your own household!’
37 “If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. 38 If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. 39 If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.
40 “Anyone who receives you receives me, and anyone who receives me receives the Father who sent me. 41 If you receive a prophet as one who speaks for God, you will be given the same reward as a prophet. And if you receive righteous people because of their righteousness, you will be given a reward like theirs.42 And if you give even a cup of cold water to one of the least of my followers, you will surely be rewarded.”

So you see here this to you seems extreme. To me here lies the TRUTH. And it is these who obey this TRUTH that truly belong to God. If you take this account and look closely what is written, you can see how serious this passage is. Look at the next passage and take in account the consequences thereof, which is either life or death!

Well it certainly is radical, that is correct, Jesus came to bring a sword, to bring people out of loving sin to loving righteousness as this is what salvation is, to follow Christ is to forsake sin through Christ death and resurrection, aka to be saved from the penalty and the power of sin.

Check out this passage, it speaks of the glory of this gospel:
Acts 26:18 I am sending you to them to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Matthew 25:37 “Then these righteous ones will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing? 39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 “And the King will say, ‘I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!’
41 “Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, ‘Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his demons. 42 For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’
44 “Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’
45 “And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’
46 “And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”

As you see there is a correlation here where He talks about giving a glass of water to the least of His followers and being rewarded. The reward was life. The reward was salvation. The consequence was death. Alot more was said in the previous passage then just water. The point being to deny oneself and follow Christ. So you see how grave the outcome is as to who obeys the first passage. But lets look further.

^On this one you've got it wrong! This is talking about true saving faith VS false faith. We know that the bible teaches that
faith without works is dead, WHICH MEANS....... that the faith that doesn't produce good works and holiness isn't real, ITS DEAD!

The way of salvation is through faith alone in Christ, the faith that doesn't produce good fruit is a false faith, indeed as James says: it's a dead faith and yes that kind of faith can't save......because that ain't real faith in Jesus, that's the point.


James is not saying in his book that salvation is via works, he is saying the salvation that doesn't work aint real! He is saying the PERSON HAS NEVER BELIEVED, does that make sense?

Salvation is not a reward and Jesus in that passage is not rewarding them eternal life for deeds but instead there deeds show forth the reality of there faith in the Lord and Savior, the One that they alone are trusting in for eternal life AND not their own filthy rags of righteousness but Christ own righteousness for salvation!

Here is some verses about Salvation not being a reward! Salvation is something NO ONE can earn or deserve:
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Also here is another verse:
Galatians 2:16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

Another:
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Luke 9:57 As they were walking along, someone said to Jesus, “I will follow you wherever you go.”
58 But Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens to live in, and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place even to lay his head.”
59 He said to another person, “Come, follow me.”
The man agreed, but he said, “Lord, first let me return home and bury my father.”
60 But Jesus told him, “Let the spiritually dead bury their own dead! Your duty is to go and preach about the Kingdom of God.”
61 Another said, “Yes, Lord, I will follow you, but first let me say good-bye to my family.”
62 But Jesus told him, “Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God.”

Just saying goodbye to loved ones was not something Jesus was ok with. He said that person is not fit! Strong wording! Extreme by the way you saw it when I said we must deny everything and EVERYONE and follow Christ. But if you also look at what He told the person who wanted to follow Him, He said He had no where to lay His head. Meaning He doesnt have lavish homes or material luxuries if thats what youre hoping to find by following Christ. But He encourages another to follow Him and forsake his family. Are you seeing any of this yet?

Well that's true but that doesn't mean having possessions is evil though, its just that God is Lord of your life.
Also you don't need to forsake your family to follow Jesus, unless he summons you to. I mean why would someone need to leave there house and forsake there family? only if there family was hostile against them, THE POINT IS they must be willing to give these things up for Jesus if it is NEEDED.

Ill let you respond before I proceed..

Absolutely. About 16 years ago I became a believer. I was red hot for God. Did everything that a new Believer was suppose to do. Life was grand. Blessing of a Wife and Children, a good home to live in.

As the years passed, I became like-warm in my walk. The burdens of the world and my old nature became appealing again. I went from luke-warm to all our wicked.

As fews month ago my Wife decided it was time leave me. I had been so wrong to her that her heart was actually harden. She left. I fell in despair.

One night I was alone and completely drunk. I wondered about my place for hours thinking, I don’t even know. What I do remember is having a loaded gun in my hand and I was walking about yelling at unclean sprits saying “ You finally got me. You finally destroyed me”

I remember sitting on my couch, rubbing the gun against the side of my head and finally ending up in my mouth with finger on the trigger. You know what bothers me the most was that I wasn’t scared. Either I was too intoxicated or didn’t care enough.

I passed out for the night. The next few days were hazy. I felt like a stranger in a strange land. People whom I have known were now like shadows passing by.

One day while I was sitting at my desk, I decided to listen to a sermon on divorce. The first video that popped up was one called “ Why God allows marriages to fail” The Man who did the video was passionate about his testimony. He was a Man that lost everything and was involved in a brutal divorce that lasted 5 years.

He message was that if we do indeed want to follow Christ we need deny ourselves and embrace and praise God for the pain that has come about. How can we truly be a follower if we had to never endure suffering or loss.

At the video I prayed and really thought what I heard. The next day as I was standing outside looking at the clouds I said “ Lord, God, Father! I give everything over to you. I don’t know what that will mean or be, but there is no other way. Take me for good or for bad and use me to your Glory!”

The next fews days I prayed, cried, repented of the sins I had committed to God and my family. Slowly, Gods grace and sprit descended upon me.

I walk with the Lord everyday now. The hurt and pain are still there, but God gives me comfort. I don’t know what my future holds, but I know I am in the Mighty Right Hand of Jesus. Whatever comes about, my thinking is now for eternity and His kingdom. It’s a hard concept to grasp for a finite being like myself.

Thank you for listening and pray for me. I will also pray for you!

You’ve lived through quite an experience there. I’ll share some advice that I was given when I first became a Christian: ”people leak.” Its a natural thing for us to see emotion and spiritual fervor cool over time. Like you, I have lived through a divorce, years ago when my company was acquired by another and I lost my job. Life became very difficult as not only did I lose my job, but spouse and home all in a short period of time. I’ve found spiritual disciplines like regular prayer and fasting in addition to bible reading to be very helpful...and not forsaking the gathering of the saints. My church meets at least three times a week and we will offer daily services the week of Christmas. There is a book called the “Ladder of Divine Ascent” written hundreds of years ago which gives us short chapters on a variety of subjects that we can use to reflect on our lives. I think you will find the answer you seek about what the fullness of taking up ones cross means in it.

May God Bless you and Keep you, may God make his face shine upon you and grant you peace.