Not By Works

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Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Judges1318 said:
According to this, then, the Galatians didn't really come to share in Christ because they fell away and did not hold fast the beginning of their assurance firm to the end. So, while Paul says they were in fact saved, this doctrine says they weren't really saved because they fell away. Who's right?

If we won't know that we will hold fast to the end until the end gets here, how do we know if we or anybody else has really come to share in Christ? It seems in this doctrine we can only know those who haven't really come to share in Christ by if they don't hold fast their assurance in Christ now. All the rest of us can't know for sure until the end comes. We have to fall before that to find out for sure.
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You know yourself. You know you believe in Jesus, dont you? We dont know other people thats the gimmick here.

Where does Paul say in the Galatians that someone was saved and then became unsaved? Are you talking about Galatians 5:4?
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

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EleventhHour said:
A born again believer can be self-righteous too.....if you read the passage on lukewarm believers in Revelations you see that is exactly who they are.

Sorry if it seems I am picking on you @Lightskin ...... Rest assured I am not a male chauvinist.:)
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You can pick on me any time if it means deciphering the truth. 😎
 
J

Judges1318

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Hevosmies said:
You know yourself. You know you believe in Jesus, dont you? We dont know other people thats the gimmick here.
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But the passage you quoted says 'we' know.
Hevosmies said:
Hebrews 3:14
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
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So if 'we' doesn't really mean ourselves, then Paul is saying we can't know others are saved, we can only know they are unsaved by when they fall away from trust in Christ for justification and to the law for justification--which is exactly what the Galatians did.


Hevosmies said:
Where does Paul say in the Galatians that someone was saved and then became unsaved? Are you talking about Galatians 5:4?
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It says they were now trying to be justified by works of the law and fell away from Christ in that regard.

Galatians 5:1-5 NIV
"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness."

It plainly says they have severed themselves from Christ in this matter of justification and are no longer holding fast the assurance they began with and are seeking to be justified by law. So now you can see the nature of all my questions I've been asking. According to once saved always doctrine, which says you can not lose your salvation, this means either 1) you were never saved to begin with, because you fell (but Paul says they were saved), or, 2) you are still saved despite the fact that you fell away (which they surely did).

I think there's more to be said about this, but I'm at work waiting for a batch script to finish running and I'm thinking on my feet with limited time to think.
 
J

Judges1318

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Judges1318 said:
Galatians 5:1-5 NIV
"It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness."
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If this does not mean falling away from Christ for justification, how do you fall away from Christ for justification? And if you do that are you still justified, or do you lose your justification, or are you just showing you were never really justified in the first place?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Rosemaryx said:
Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

If anyone adds or takes away clearly what God has spoken , they are in grave danger...

We who believe we cannot lose our Salvation is because we believe in the word of God to be true...
We do not believe that works do not follow , but believe in the works that God has set before us to do , and so we do them ...

Romans 15:5
Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, ...

Even our perseverance to walk on comes from Him , how blessed we are :)
...xox...
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Amen Rose.......keep swinging
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Lightskin said:
That’s exactly my point, brother. Worker bees are self righteous about their works, but when it’s pointed out that the works come from God, the worker bees remain pridefully silent rather than giving God the glory.
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Lord, Lord have we not done......this will be exactly what they say....to no avail!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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EleventhHour said:
I am thankful I do not look at my works or my perseverance for proof of my salvation....for that is a focus on myself and not Christ.

Grace while undeserved is free..no strings attached, promise of works not required... and this is what magnifies God who gives freely and only from that understanding of His Grace towards us will the good works flow.
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Exactly.....all Christ or fraudulent!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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EleventhHour said:
I would say it is not that our works come from God as though we have no choice in the matter, sometimes we definitely feel His prompting, but also we must make a choice to act and yield. (see James).

As well, it is within our saved status that works legitimize/justify who were are before men and secondly please God because of who we are in Christ.
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Simple truth.....The ROOT produces the FRUIT that we but BEAR as branches.....!!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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blue_ladybug said:
Hear ye, hear ye!!

You must do only 3 things to be saved, and go to heaven!!

1. Drink coffee

2. Eat chocolate

3. Love orange kitties

If you DON'T do these things every day, you are HELL BOUND!! You have been warned.. :sneaky:


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This made me think of the song by Triumph.....Spellbound hahaha of course with the word Hell in place of SPELL hahhaahahah Blue cast a spell on me hahahh
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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EleventhHour said:
Yes of course, a born again person remains justified apart from all good works performed.

In objective reality the cross can not be nullified.... It is those who preach against and do not accept the completed work of cross by infusing human effort into the equation that nullify it ...but only in their false perception.

Do you see what I mean?

There is the subjective and the truth/reality.

And those that nullify the cross by their false dogma have not yet come to truth.
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Nor will they if they continue in their false religion <--two fold the child of hell Jesus said!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Judges1318 said:
Even if the born again person turns their back on justification through faith in Christ and performs works of righteousness with the express intent of earning his own salvation?
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No offence, but this scenario is non existent in the word because one is justified eternally regardless!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Judges1318 said:
God does the justifying, of course. He gives it through one's faith in his offer of forgiveness.

If a person no longer has faith in that offer he can't have it anymore because justification is conditional on trusting in Christ. Of course some will argue that if you walk away from the free offer of forgiveness you never really had it in the first place. Which means the Galatians were never really justified to begin with since they turned away from Christ and to the law for justification. But the problem with that argument is Paul makes it very clear that they were very much saved.

Once saved always saved is a very difficult doctrine to reconcile with the whole counsel of the Bible.
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To your last statement.....Not hardly!
 
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